# "That's so gay" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358 "2009-08-31T14:57:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/161 "2009-09-22T03:13:13Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > No. “Gay” had connotations of sexual license at least as far back as the 1700’s, was used to refer to prostitution by the 1880’s if not earlier, and possibly became attached to male homosexuals via male prostitution (gay house = brothel, gay cat = male prostitute, both slang from the 1890’s). Even if it was… Gay is also a last name. I highly doubt that the origin of that name would trace back to a homosexual… actually… it couldn’t at all. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/162 "2009-09-22T03:21:25Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > **Martini** , sweetie, you seem to have a really tough time grasping this, but let me be the n-th person in this thread to assure you that when someone in America, particularly a teenage boy, uses “gay” to mean “lame”, it is _most certainly_ connected to homosexuality and the association of homosexuality with various undesirable characteristics (effeminate, weak, emo, whatever). If “gay” had never meant “homosexual”, “that’s so gay” would never arisen as an insult. Gay NEVER meant homosexual. Gay is used as SLANG for homosexual. Do we need to define the word “Slang”? If I call a woman a bitch I’m obviously not calling her a bitch because she’s literally a bitch… I’m trying to insult and hurt her(or goofin’ around)… but homosexuals like to identify with the word “gay” because of it’s literal meaning. It’s a positive meaning. That’s why I don’t mind being called gay… because 90% of the time I am gay… but i’m not homosexual. That’s why homosexuals don’t mind being called gay, but faggot and queer are considered more derogatory because they have a more hateful sound or negative meaning. What is it with homosexual people and people who support homosexuality? They fight for the legalization of SSM and are denied so they start another fight just so they can feel like they win something? This is why I feel “gay” isn’t a fitting word for homosexuals… because it seems like they’re angry more than they are gay. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Quell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Quell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Quell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/163 "2009-09-22T03:32:54Z")
> [@JR\_Brown](#): > > **Martini** , sweetie, you seem to have a really tough time grasping this, but let me be the n-th person in this thread to assure you that when someone in America, particularly a teenage boy, uses “gay” to mean “lame”, it is _most certainly_ connected to homosexuality and the association of homosexuality with various undesirable characteristics (effeminate, weak, emo, whatever). If “gay” had never meant “homosexual”, “that’s so gay” would never arisen as an insult. …and please note that homosexuals aren’t campaigning against the word “gay” being used to identify a homosexual, but they’re trying to stop people from using the phrase “that’s so gay”… because truth be told, the word “gay” isn’t a derogatory… but the word “gay” doesn’t literally mean “homosexual” because it is SLANG. GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. i cannot stress that or say it enough. GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. please just get that. just get it. think about it. GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. got it yet? do you understand? GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/164 "2009-09-22T03:48:12Z")
May I recommend…decaf coffee? ---
**Author:** ![ragerdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d07c76/32.png) [@ragerdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ragerdude)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/165 "2009-09-22T04:14:25Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > i cannot stress that or say it enough. > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > please just get that. just get it. think about it. > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > got it yet? do you understand? > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. I think you have placed too much weight on the significance of the word “mean” above. Now, then, lexicographers tend to avoid referring to the various “meanings” of words, but instead prefer to speak of various “_usages_,” and this approach seems to be much more objective. It is indisputable that there exist a variety of _usages_ of the word “gay.” It is also indisputable that the word gay is “_used of_” homosexuals – indeed, this usage is now the _primary_ usage in most contexts. The usage of “gay” in “that’s so gay” is entirely derivative – it is an transfer of the usage of “gay” to refer to homosexuals. The presupposition of this usage is that “gay” is something bad to be. Similarly, with the word “retarded” – the usage “that’s so retarded” is completely derived from the usage of “retarded” to refer to people with certain mental and developmental deficits. The disapprovals expressed in the statements, “that’s gay,” or “that’s lame,” or “that’s retarded,” all hinges on the assumption that to be gay, lame, or retarded is to be defective. Even if you could prove that “gay does not mean homosexual,” it does not matter, for “gay” is “used of” homosexuals as the primary usage. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/166 "2009-09-22T04:22:44Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > the word “gay” doesn’t literally mean “homosexual” because it is SLANG. > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > i cannot stress that or say it enough. > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > please just get that. just get it. think about it. > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. > > got it yet? do you understand? > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. Yes it does. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/167 "2009-09-22T04:25:04Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > but the word “gay” doesn’t literally mean “homosexual” because it is SLANG. This is nonsense. Gay is a slang term used to mean homosexual. There is no firm barrier between real definitions and slang definitions. If people use a word often enough with a meaning that becomes widely understood, than that’s what the word means. > [@](#): > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. Repetition does not equal an argument, **Lacunae Quell**. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358/168 "2009-09-22T04:30:16Z")
> [@Lacunae\_Quell](#): > > GAY DOES NOT MEAN HOMOSEXUAL. etc. If I talk about this calmly, will you? I’d just like to know, since you obviously feel strongly about this: when somebody says “that’s so gay,” what does that mean? And why does it mean that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-so-gay/508358.md?page=8)