# That's what I get for having any opinion of soccer here! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311 "2018-07-05T03:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/1 "2018-07-05T03:18:27Z")
All right. Cards on the table. I’m closing in on 18 years on the SDMB. I’ve paid for that privilege for most of that time (although the price is very reasonable). There is one reason, and one reason alone, for that fact: It takes out the trash. Anyone who causes trouble or spews bullshit gets a warning; anyone who persists gets banned. Mercilessly, relentlessly. And that, more than anything else, is what makes the SDMB worth it. Places like Cracked or YouTube or even GameFAQs may make some efforts to eliminating offenders, but either it’s a misguided effort (YouTube seems to be the biggest offender), or the site doesn’t go far enough, or there are simply too many discussions to properly police them all. And the subscription service made it even better, since only those who really cared enough about following the rules and being decent to others would be willing to pay. Then guests were allowed to join. I did see troubling signs on the horizon. More intolerance, more nastiness. Annoying, but for the most part nothing disastrous. And then I ran across the obligatory [quadrennial thread grumbling about how boring soccer is](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=21043828). Here was my reply. Post #71. > [@Soccer ... \*YAWN\*](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soccer-yawn/816505/71): > > For me, the problem isn’t the lack of scoring opportunities. Far from it; every game has tons of them. The problem is that defense has it _so_ easy, and there are _so_ many things that can go wrong, and the windows are _so_ tiny, that there’s absolutely no way of telling if Great Opportunity #1, #5, #9, #14, or #55 is going to hit the jackpot. I’ve watched hundreds of hours of soccer in my life, and barring penalty shots and complete defensive meltdowns like that infamous Brazil-Germany semifinal, at least 75% of the goals I’ve seen were flat-out flukes. > > Consider football. You know when a team is making progress. You know when it’s in good position to score a field goal or touchdown. You can tell, just by the numbers, if the offense is clicking. If it’s a low-scoring game, it’s because the defenses are dominant and shutting down scoring chances. Likewise, in baseball, the bases dictate whether there’s a good chance to put a run on the board (it even has a term for this, “scoring position”). A low-scoring game is a classic pitcher’s duel where both sides’ batters struggle to put men on base and move them. And of course, in both sports it’s possible for a score to happen suddenly from a spot not normally considered a good opportunity; a 60-yard touchdown pass, a home run with a runner on first, and these are fairly frequent occurrences that add more excitement to the game. Even hockey, probably the sport most analogous to soccer, has multiple lines, a relatively small playing surface, and an extremely fast-moving puck. There are plenty of ace shooters and more than a few suspect defenses. Furthermore, hockey has power plays, which are specifically designed to give one team a better chance at scoring (as opposed to soccer’s utterly impotent free kick). Bottom line is that the excellent opportunities tend to pay off, and even the weakest offenses can usually find the net at least once. > > I think the biggest problem is the rock-and-a-hard-place the situation the game put itself into by refusing to make any kind of reasonable compromise on the poaching issue. All right, all right, I concede that allowing the feeding of passes to an attacker parked in front of the net would be a bad thing. There absolutely should be a limit on how far he’s allowed to roam. So why not do the sensible thing and draw a line? Y’know, like hockey? That way there would be an definite, easily-understandable limit. Instead we have allow the position of the freaking _defender_ to determine whether the opponent is “off his side”, leading to the utter garbage of the “offside trap” and strangling the best attacks in the crib. > > Yes, there is excitement in soccer, and yes, there is a lot of scoring (there seem to be a lot more blowouts this year, I don’t know why). But never having the faintest idea _when_ it’s going to happen kinda spoils it for me. It’s like a televised Congressional hearing. Sure, there could be an earthshaking revelation, but I’m not sitting through the whole two hours to find out. Nothing inflammatory about that, right? Just my personal observations of a lifetime of soccer watching, and a bit of playing in my younger years. Nothing that would warrant an _incredibly insulting_ response belittling my very right to say anything about soccer. And for a while, the responses were thoughtful, just like I’d expect. And then Novelty Bobble weighed in on that 75% figure. Post #89. > [@Soccer ... \*YAWN\*](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/soccer-yawn/816505/86): > > I think that is absolute nonsense. There is no way that figure is even remotely true unless you are watching 7 year olds in the playground or are using a definition of the word “fluke” that the rest of humanity does not recognise. > > You clearly have no understanding of the game, you obviously have not comprehended what little you have seen and your impressions of it can be safely ignored. **WHAT THE FLYING FUCK?? A FLAME? A FUCKING FLAME ON THE SDMB??** Has this complete piece of shit read the stuff I’ve written about Beavis And Butthead? Or South Park? Or Dancing With The Stars? Or baseball, football, or golf? Or paranoid hurricane reports? I was a _thousand_ times as virulent about those subjects, and I’ve _never_ been flamed for any of it. Because _that’s not supposed to happen here._ And has there been a warning? To show that this _steaming pile of bullshit_ isn’t acceptable? No. I reported it…force of habit, I guess…but I have little faith it’s going to result in anything. Goddammit! I never throw the first punch! I never start shit! I never troll or bait! I’m PERFECTLY willing to discuss my viewpoints with ANYONE here! I’ve backed off on dozens of discussions that I didn’t have anything close to a satisfactory answer on just because other posters were tired of hearing about it! I do my best to be considerate! Is asking the same in return too much to ask? Okay, fine! Soccer is this perfect sport that is never boring and has no problems whatsoever and doesn’t need to change anything at all, _least_ of all drawing a line for offsides, and I’m a big fucking ignoramus and my opinion counts for nothing and I should just never say anything about this sport again! I give up! You win! If that what it takes to prevent SHIT FROM BEING FLUNG IN MY FACE WITH ZERO REPERCUSSIONS, I’ll fucking do it! And Novelty Bobble, and any other guests who think I’m overreacting or need to be more civil, kindly feel free to KISS MY ASS! (Fucking sport…fucking fandom…) ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/2 "2018-07-05T03:38:09Z")
I saw that post while that thread was progressing. I’ll admit I also found it quite assholeish. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/3 "2018-07-05T05:52:40Z")
I see nothing over the line about what **Novelty Bobble** posted. Or at least, certainly nothing to warrant mod action. It doesn’t hurt that he’s not wrong. 75% fluke? That looks like a figure that’s \*calculated \*to piss off soccer fans, not the result of careful analysis. I only watch around 10 hours of soccer a year, and even I can tell that’s patently bullshit. But more importantly? What the ever-living fuck does _subscription status_ have to do with anything? You actually think that matters? Some of the rudest, and most trollish fucks on here have “Charter Member” under their name. Plus it’s a bit rich for someone with “Guest”\* under their own name\* to try pulling that elitist crap. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/4 "2018-07-05T06:06:27Z")
Cool - a nice, chill CS thread for once. Me - less diving, please. Other than that, footy is just the bees knees. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/5 "2018-07-05T11:02:28Z")
Well that’s my first direct pitting and I guess that isn’t a bad hit-rate for nearly a decade on the board but really? That’s very weak. “incredibly insulting”? really? and you’ve been here how long? The irony is not lost on me that you seem to be suggesting that fans of football are somehow over-sensitive and over-reacting to criticism, whilst your response to a very mild rebuke regarding a stat you pulled out of your arse appears to be a formal reporting and a pitting. I’ve never reported anyone, never felt the need. I reckon we can all take a little rough and tumble. Anyway, the fact remains that you made up a nonsense “statistic”, with what intent I have no idea but you rightly got called out on it. And believe me, what you said was complete nonsense. Either that stat was intended to be sarcastic or hyperbole, in which case it can be ignored, or you truly meant it, in which case it is a clearly a poorly researched opinion based on what can only be a questionable reading of the game and can also safely be disregarded. I note you’ve not used any additional data to back it up. Do you have any? I stand by what I said and wouldn’t take a word of it back unless shown that I was wrong. Nor would I choose to express it in any other way. If you are perceiving the game in such way as to honestly come away with that opinion then yes, what you said regarding flukes should be ignored. And just be careful how you structure things. I very carefully \*\*ONLY \*\*responded to your 75% fluke claim. The way you’ve set it out above makes it seem like I was applying my comments to the whole of your post. I was not. I did not show your whole post on purpose because I thought only one section of it was outright nonsense. Had I posted in a Hockey or Basketball thread that 75% of all scores were flukes, or that 75% of all US supreme court decision were reached by a secret spinning wheel of chance I would consider it a sign of the coming apocalypse if I \*didn’t \*get my arse handed to me on a plate and served notice that my opinions on the subject were suspect. If this is all it takes to be pitted then consider me underwhelmed. I’m not angry, I’m just very disappointed with all concerned.😃 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/6 "2018-07-05T12:02:46Z")
I’m most amused how much drama and violence fans have to create to make up for how boring the game is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/7 "2018-07-05T13:16:13Z")
The 75% number is ridiculously high. I think the number is more like 62.7%. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/8 "2018-07-05T13:29:44Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’m most amused how much drama and violence fans have to create to make up for how boring the game is. Derping? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/9 "2018-07-05T13:31:01Z")
I watch a lot of soccer (much of it with the Euro-hooligans I play with). But every four years, I end up watching it at pubs filled with Americans. And I’m embarrassed by how random it is. I could give you multiple examples from this World Cup: one team outplays the other, dominating with precision passing and over twenty shots on goal. But the other sloppier team gets one lucky break (perhaps even off a defender), and that’s the game. Every four years I watch thinking “Okay, now we have a generation of Americans in their 20s and 30s that grew up playing soccer as kids. Why won’t it take off as a professional sport here?” The speed of the game is a factor, and the fact that goals are so few that one scored by the weaker team can mean victory. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/10 "2018-07-05T13:37:52Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I watch a lot of soccer (much of it with the Euro-hooligans I play with). But every four years, I end up watching it at pubs filled with Americans. > > And I’m embarrassed by how random it is. I could give you multiple examples from this World Cup: one team outplays the other, dominating with precision passing and over twenty shots on goal. But the other sloppier team gets one lucky break (perhaps even off a defender), and that’s the game. > > Every four years I watch thinking “Okay, now we have a generation of Americans in their 20s and 30s that grew up playing soccer as kids. Why won’t it take off as a professional sport here?” The speed of the game is a factor, and the fact that goals are so few that one scored by the weaker team can mean victory. Soccer has already taken off in the USA. The size and attendance figures for the MLS are evidence enough. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/11 "2018-07-05T13:48:11Z")
Oh goody, a soccer riot in the Pit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/12 "2018-07-05T13:53:33Z")
I don’t hate soccer, but it’s hard to take seriously when it solves elimination games with those ridiculous shoot-outs. What a sorry-ass spectacle. The entire thing comes down to the goalie guessing correctly (or not.) ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/13 "2018-07-05T14:00:31Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I don’t hate soccer, but it’s hard to take seriously when it solves elimination games with those ridiculous shoot-outs. What a sorry-ass spectacle. The entire thing comes down to the goalie guessing correctly (or not.) After 120 minutes in sweltering summer heat…with no timeouts…only 4 subs allowed in those 120 minutes. PKs are a compromise that provide closure to a match while not putting the players health at risk. And they are nailbiting heart attack inducing fun. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/14 "2018-07-05T14:01:00Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I don’t hate soccer, but it’s hard to take seriously when it solves elimination games with those ridiculous shoot-outs. What a sorry-ass spectacle. The entire thing comes down to the goalie guessing correctly (or not.) Yeah, I proposed settling the final score with a set of ping pong played by the team captains, making the point that a shootout has as little to do with soccer as table tennis does. But, again, the game is so low scoring that if they say “Okay, Sudden Death til one team scores!” they’d have to play in a stadium with lights. Because the _Lingering Death_ round could be six hours. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/15 "2018-07-05T14:07:02Z")
I don’t know what’s more boring - soccer or this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/16 "2018-07-05T14:07:23Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > After 120 minutes in sweltering summer heat…with no timeouts…only 4 subs allowed in those 120 minutes. > > PKs are a compromise that provide closure to a match while not putting the players health at risk. And they are nailbiting heart attack inducing fun. Precisemundo. **Blank Slate** : What would your option be? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/17 "2018-07-05T14:07:26Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Every four years I watch thinking “Okay, now we have a generation of Americans in their 20s and 30s that grew up playing soccer as kids. Why won’t it take off as a professional sport here?” The speed of the game is a factor, and the fact that goals are so few that one scored by the weaker team can mean victory. kids have been playing soccer longer than that. I’m in my 40s and I clearly remember lots of kids my age playing it. But that’s where it ends for a lot of 'em, 'cos it’s still thought of as a “kids game” in plenty of circles. at any rate it is kind of “taking off” in that leagues like MLS are growing. But that’s not good enough for some people; they insist that it should take over from baseball, football, and basketball as one of the most popular sports. You know the type of person, a fucking asshole snob who automatically thinks anything done differently in another country is “better” and won’t shut the fuck up about how awesome he is because he desperately puts on faux-European airs. it’s not gonna happen any time soon, despite Deadspin and ESPN’s best efforts to force everyone to care about it. Deadspin is just a bunch of those faux-European snobs, and ESPN has a ton of its own issues. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/18 "2018-07-05T14:10:48Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > kids have been playing soccer longer than that. I’m in my 40s and I clearly remember lots of kids my age playing it. But that’s where it ends for a lot of 'em, 'cos it’s still thought of as a “kids game” in plenty of circles. > > at any rate it is kind of “taking off” in that leagues like MLS are growing. But that’s not good enough for some people; they insist that it should take over from baseball, football, and basketball as one of the most popular sports. You know the type of person, a fucking asshole snob who automatically thinks anything done differently in another country is “better” and won’t shut the fuck up about how awesome he is because he desperately puts on faux-European airs. > > it’s not gonna happen any time soon, despite Deadspin and ESPN’s best efforts to force everyone to care about it. Deadspin is just a bunch of those faux-European snobs, and ESPN has a ton of its own issues. Please reassure us that you don’t own firearms. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/19 "2018-07-05T14:11:12Z")
The “a least 75% of the goals I’ve seen were flat-out flukes” statement was dumb. For one thing “flat-out fluke” is not a well defined sports term, so if called on it you could always tweak your definition so it works. I expect you initially didn’t indeed for it to include a well placed free kick from just outside the box, but a relatively low percentage of free kicks from just outside the box lead to goals, so it could be argued that those who do are “flukes”. I expect you were more thinking of deflections off a defender, lucky bounces, corner kicks into the throng in front of goal, and it is entirely possible that makes up 75% or more of goals, but so what? Getting the corner or getting to the point where you can make a shot at goal is part of what sets a good team apart from a weak one. Sure, the low number of attempts and the high element of randomness compared to, for instance basketball, makes for higher odds of “surprise” upsets in elimination tournaments, but to football fans that is part of the excitement. But if that was the intended meaning, the number is still meaningless unless you take into consideration other stats, such a “shots on goal” and “corner kicks”. In league play previous performance predicts final rank very well, which would not be the case if the game was just random. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311/20 "2018-07-05T14:13:52Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t know what’s more boring - soccer or this thread. And yet you clicked on the title, knowing what you’d get, and read enough to have an opinion. (Or read nothing because just the title made you decide it was a good opportunity to troll.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thats-what-i-get-for-having-any-opinion-of-soccer-here/817311.md?page=2)