# The 10,000 Year Explosion - a book review **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355 "2011-04-22T14:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/181 "2011-04-26T05:53:10Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > And, with the number of counterexamples posted just on this thread, we can write it off as junk science and move on. Well, not really. Also, the book is more circumspect in terms of its conclusions than those presented in the comment you were responding to. There’s a review of it here in [Twin Research and Human Genetics](http://www.atypon-link.com/AAP/doi/abs/10.1375/twin.12.4.409). > [@](#): > > The 10,000 Year Explosion is replete with facts and ideas; we need more books like it. Cracking stories are bumper to bumper; the historical and cultural reach of the authors is impressive. It’s a cultural genetics potboiler with a serious academic punch. If it sparks no real intellectual curiosity in your students, worry about it. If nobody on the faculty is interested, you’re probably in a department where there were, sadly, not enough Gregs to go around. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/182 "2011-04-26T06:22:53Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Well, not really. Yes, really. And that is shown by the quality of your cites, now you are reduced to get a fan girl cartoonist that backs the author. As I noticed before, there are no good pickings out there to look for support or there are less and less good ones as time goes by. So if we go the cartoonist way, I prefer Ruben Bolling: [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any\_volunteers.php](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any_volunteers.php) As for more to the point, I already posted twice the points of PZ Myers. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/183 "2011-04-26T13:12:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, really. > > And that is shown by the quality of your cites, now you are reduced to get a fan girl cartoonist that backs the author. As I noticed before, there are no good pickings out there to look for support or there are less and less good ones as time goes by. > > So if we go the cartoonist way, I prefer Ruben Bolling: > > [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any\_volunteers.php](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any_volunteers.php) > > As for more to the point, I already posted twice the points of PZ Myers. The cartoon linked to repeats the time worn liberal cliche that American blacks owe their low average IQ scores to the legacy of slavery and racial discrimination. It does not explain why the gap persists two generations after the civil rights legislation was signed. It does not explain why the gap exists everywhere in the world. (If the gap was environmental I would expect it to vary more, and to disappear in some environments.) It does not explain why blacks in the United States average fifteen points higher than blacks in Africa. There are many other things the cartoon does not explain. The 10,000 Explosion does explain those those things. Races differ because they have evolved in response to different population pressures. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/184 "2011-04-26T14:04:32Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > It does not explain why the gap persists two generations after the civil rights legislation was signed. Because signing some legislation magically erased all black-white inequality:rolleyes: [quote] > [@](#): > > (If the gap was environmental I would expect it to vary more, and to disappear in some environments.) If the “gap” were genetic, we’d expect to see way more variation within Africa than outside, ever think about that? > [@](#): > > It does not explain why blacks in the United States average fifteen points higher than blacks in Africa. It does, actually (not that I agree that they do) > [@](#): > > There are many other things the cartoon does not explain. The 10,000 Explosion does explain those those things. Races differ because they have evolved in response to different population pressures. PAh. If this were the case, the Africa/Out of Africa split would \*completely \*override any other possible race difference, wouldn’t it? Asians would be completely indistinguishable from Europeans, given the history of settlement in both areas and related factors. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/185 "2011-04-26T14:37:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If this were the case, the Africa/Out of Africa split would \*completely \*override any other possible race difference, wouldn’t it? Asians would be completely indistinguishable from Europeans, given the history of settlement in both areas and related factors. There are fewer differences between Whites and Orientals than between either and blacks. I can explain the higher average IQs of Chinese by the imperial exam system. For two thousand years men who could pass the exams were elevated to the Scholar Gentry. They were given generous incomes, and expected to have several wives and many children. The higher average IQs of Japanese and South Koreans are more difficult for me to understand, but they have been documented. The Far East may benefit genetically by not having experienced a Dark Age, like Europe did after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Feudalism reduced the selective pressure that exists in favor of superior intelligence in an urban environment. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/186 "2011-04-26T15:21:41Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The cartoon linked to repeats the time worn liberal cliche that American blacks owe their low average IQ scores to the legacy of slavery and racial discrimination. Meh, reaching for the “it is a liberal academic conspiracy” is the cliche. What I still see is extreme frustration that science is continuing to drop, if not your cherished special definitions of race, to continue to drop any support for misrepresented research conclusions or solutions that some claim we should employ even before research is completed or made. Already in the pit thread there were explanations of the intelligence gap, and you never bothered to explain those away. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/187 "2011-04-26T15:28:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Meh, reaching for the “it is a liberal academic conspiracy” is the cliche. > > What I still see is extreme frustration that science is continuing to drop, if not your cherished special definitions of race, to continue to drop any support for misrepresented research conclusions or solutions that some claim we should employ even before research is completed or made. > > Already in the pit thread there were explanations of the intelligence gap, and you never bothered to explain those away. What science are you talking about? 😕 Every single effort to bridge the Race Gap fails. No Child Left Behind is one more expensive example. Those who pretend that the Race Gap is exclusively, or even primarily environmental have nothing to back up their prejudices but wishful thinking, defended by the thought control of political correctness. No Child Left Behind leaves so many children behind because when you pour a pint of water into a cup, the cup does not expand; you waste a cup of water. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/188 "2011-04-26T15:36:19Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Dogs were domesticated about 15,000 years ago in what is now China. Most dog breeds are only several hundred years old. Negroes and everyone else separated about 50,000 years ago. Whites and Orientals separated about 30,000 years ago. > > I doubt very seriously that dog breeds are more dissimilar genetically than human races. You really need to read up on the differences (time-scale differences included) between **natural** selection and **artificial** selection. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/189 "2011-04-26T15:45:37Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > No Child Left Behind is one more expensive example. No Child Left Behind wasn’t intended to address any racial disparities. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/190 "2011-04-26T16:04:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No Child Left Behind wasn’t intended to address any racial disparities. The primary goals of NCLB are that: •All students will achieve high academic standards by attaining proficiency or better in reading and mathematics by the 2013–2014 school year. •Highly qualified teachers will teach all students •All students will be educated in schools and classrooms that are safe, drug free, and conducive to learning. •All limited English proficient students will become proficient in English. •All students will graduate from high school. > **[Worksheets, Educational Games, Printables, and Activities | Education.com](https://www.education.com/resources/)** > > Browse Worksheets, Educational Games, Printables, and Activities. Award winning educational materials designed to help kids succeed. Start for free now! These goals are preposterously unrealistic. The failure to achieve them highlights the persistence of the race gap. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/191 "2011-04-26T16:11:03Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Feudalism reduced the selective pressure that exists in favor of superior intelligence in an urban environment. In a posting history abundant with bullshit, I think you kind of reached the skies with this one. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/192 "2011-04-26T16:12:59Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The primary goals of NCLB are that: Yes, I notice race does not appear in there. > [@](#): > > These goals are preposterously unrealistic. The failure to achieve them highlights the persistence of the race gap. Let me get this straight: NCLB was burdensome, ill-conceived in some respects, underfunded, and failed to achieve its goals for students regardless of their background. And this proves that black students are inherently less capable? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/193 "2011-04-26T16:16:21Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The failure to achieve them highlights the persistence of the race gap. Actually, it doesn’t. You haven’t made the connection between the two. You could just as easily have said that it highlights the persistence of the poverty gap. Random non-sequiturs don’t make a case. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/194 "2011-04-26T16:24:26Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > There are fewer differences between Whites and Orientals than between either and blacks. I didn’t say “fewer differences”, I said “completely indistinguishable” > [@](#): > > I can explain the higher average IQs of Chinese by the imperial exam system. Really? You think it takes a higher IQ to memorize the _Classic of Poetry_ versus making sure the rice is harvested in time? And you really think an examination system based around those activities the landed classes themselves have time to practice at, wouldn’t merely lead to a self-affirming social class? You really think the result of the Imperial exams maps to IQ? > [@](#): > > The higher average IQs of Japanese and South Koreans are more difficult for me to understand, but they have been documented. …and here is where you just completely lose all credibility. You can’t explain it, but you’ll take it on faith that there’s an explanation, rather than examine the base IQ data more critically. > [@](#): > > The Far East may benefit genetically by not having experienced a Dark Age, like Europe did after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. The Dark Age is a Renaissance myth. > [@](#): > > Feudalism reduced the selective pressure that exists in favor of superior intelligence in an urban environment. But [China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fengjian), [Korea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_rank_system)and fracking _[Japan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoen)_ were never (as-good-as-) feudal?:rolleyes: Makes no difference if you’re ruling from a castle or a palace ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/195 "2011-04-26T20:10:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Yes, really. > > And that is shown by the quality of your cites, now you are reduced to get a fan girl cartoonist that backs the author. As I noticed before, there are no good pickings out there to look for support or there are less and less good ones as time goes by. > > So if we go the cartoonist way, I prefer Ruben Bolling: > > [http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any\_volunteers.php](http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/12/any_volunteers.php) > > As for more to the point, I already posted twice the points of PZ Myers. Haha, a positive book review in the Twin Research and Human Genetics journal is just some “fan girl” 😃 How sexist of you. Naturally, she couldn’t be smart or professional enough to produce a solid review. And I’ve responded to the blog comments by PZ Myers above. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/196 "2011-04-26T20:31:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Actually, it doesn’t. You haven’t made the connection between the two. You could just as easily have said that it highlights the persistence of the poverty gap. Random non-sequiturs don’t make a case. Why do poor Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants have children who do well in school and prosper in a generation? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/197 "2011-04-26T20:35:22Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Actually, it doesn’t. You haven’t made the connection between the two. You could just as easily have said that it highlights the persistence of the poverty gap. Random non-sequiturs don’t make a case. Remember that adjusting for parental [income](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Income.png) and [education](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Education.png) doesn’t close gaps. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/198 "2011-04-26T20:54:48Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Remember that adjusting for parental [income](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Income.png) and [education](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Education.png) doesn’t close gaps. Thank you for those websites. They are fascinating. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/199 "2011-04-26T21:40:33Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Why do poor Vietnamese and Chinese immigrants have children who do well in school and prosper in a generation? If you eat rice all day long, your ambitions increase… Simple :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/200 "2011-04-26T22:14:23Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > If you eat rice all day long, your ambitions increase… Simple :rolleyes: Racist! :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355.md?page=11)