# The 10,000 Year Explosion - a book review **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355 "2011-04-22T14:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/241 "2011-04-28T01:09:54Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > So, they are Social Darwinists as well? I see. > By the way, 10.000 years is too short a time span for evolving. It is set out here how you could get a change in population averages over a much shorter [time frame](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2010/07/social-darwinism-21st-century-edition.html). ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/242 "2011-04-28T01:10:50Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > And the genetic distance between individuals from the same race is less than it is between people from different races. Whether you call them races or populations, the reality is that they form clusters as a consequence of geographical isolation, inheritance and natural selection operating over the last 50k years since humans left Africa. Most alleles probably occurs in each ethnic group, but with varying **frequency**. So you are likely to see statistical [group differences](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/full/461726a.html). Statistical differences of what? Of course there are differences: color of skin, shape of the skull, texture of the hair, hairness, etc., etc., we all know that! What I am saying that those difference that exist are in **HARDWARE**. Not necesarily involves different **CPUs** , and all they run the same **Operating System** Got it? If people is racist, they could be at least honest and for the right reasons, if they wish: people look different, and some people don’t like it. But don’t invent theories of supremacy based on smoke! And if Blacks aren’t brillian in Africa, consider that continent is poor and analphabetism is the highest in the world! What could you expect in that environment? In the case of Asian supremacy, of course there is a reason why they surpass causasians so easy. Asians work hard and all they long to succeed! While caucasians take it easy drinking beer and having fun. With respect to Jewish superiority, just look how Jews are educated and lead to knowledge since childhood. While the caucasian want to be cool, the Jew what to be cultivated, learned, and able! That’s the difference. Education and attitude. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/243 "2011-04-28T01:11:09Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Race doesn’t exist. At least, not in the sense people with little culture still believes. What exist are genetical distances between individuals, but good luck if that is related with intelligence. > Just go to the morgue one day, and ask the “clerk” that show you brains of people from different races. Try to guess what race belong each brain :smack: A person’s race is easily identifiable from the person’s skeleton or DNA. * * * The New York Times By NICHOLAS WADE Published: June 26, 2007 The new scans for selection show so far that the populations on each continent have evolved independently in some ways as they responded to local climates, diseases and, perhaps, behavioral situations. The concept of race as having a biological basis is controversial, and most geneticists are reluctant to describe it that way. But some say the genetic clustering into continent-based groups does correspond roughly to the popular conception of racial groups. “There are difficulties in where you put boundaries on the globe, but we know now there are enough genetic differences between people from different parts of the world that you can classify people in groups that correspond to popular notions of race,” Dr. Pritchard said. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/science/26human.html?pagewanted=2](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/science/26human.html?pagewanted=2) ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/244 "2011-04-28T01:12:39Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > It is set out here how you could get a change in population averages over a much shorter [time frame](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2010/07/social-darwinism-21st-century-edition.html). Another Social Darwinist source. Do you still believe in those guys after what happened in WWII? ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/245 "2011-04-28T01:14:22Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > “There are difficulties in where you put boundaries on the globe, but we know now there are enough genetic differences between people from different parts of the world that you can classify people in groups that correspond to popular notions of race,” Dr. Pritchard said. And what are the difference of Dr. Pritchard? Or better, where in the evolutive scale Dr. Pritchard put himself? :rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/246 "2011-04-28T01:15:14Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > Statistical differences of what? Of course there are differences: color of skin, shape of the skull, texture of the hair, hairness, etc., etc., we all know that! > What I am saying that those difference that exist are in **HARDWARE**. Not necesarily involves different **CPUs** , and all they run the same **Operating System** > > Got it? > > If people is racist, they could be at least honest and for the right reasons, if they wish: people look different, and some people don’t like it. > > But don’t invent theories of supremacy based on smoke! And if Blacks aren’t brillian in Africa, consider that continent is poor and analphabetism is the highest in the world! What could you expect in that environment? > > In the case of Asian supremacy, of course there is a reason why they surpass causasians so easy. Asians work hard and all they long to succeed! While caucasians take it easy drinking beer and having fun. > > With respect to Jewish superiority, just look how Jews are educated and lead to knowledge since childhood. While the caucasian want to be cool, the Jew what to be cultivated, learned, and able! That’s the difference. > > Education and attitude. That’s all. I’m referring to statistical differences in physical and cognitive characteristics. If you scroll down to the [discussion](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/12/recent-natural-selection-in-humans.html) of Greg Clark’s data you’ll see how you can get a significant shift in population mean over a thousand year period. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/247 "2011-04-28T01:19:06Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > IQ is heavily influence by education, and you can’t measure oppresed human groups, with low education and marginal conditions, and expect from them the IQ of Einstein. :smack: In 1995 whites whose parents only had high school degrees averaged higher IQ scores on the SAT than blacks whose parents had graduate degrees. > **[File:1995-SAT-Education.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Education.png)** > > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file. > The following other wikis use this file: Again, in 1995 whites whose family incomes were less than $10,000 had better average SAT scores than blacks whose family exceeded $70,000. > **[File:1995-SAT-Income.png](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Income.png)** > > Click on a date/time to view the file as it appeared at that time. > You cannot overwrite this file. There are no pages that use this file. > This file contains additional information such as Exif metadata which may have been added by the digital camera, scanner, or software program used to create or digitize it. If the file has been modified from its original state, some details such as the timestamp may not fully reflect those of the original file. The timestamp is only as accurate as the clock i... ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/248 "2011-04-28T01:23:04Z")
What is a black and what is a white in the U.S.? People is so mixed today in that country that even yourself can have African genes. Perhaps precisely those genes that dominate your intelligence, isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/249 "2011-04-28T01:25:14Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > What is a black and what is a white in the U.S.? > People is so mixed today in that country that even yourself can have African genes. Perhaps precisely those genes that dominate your intelligence, isn’t? As I indicated above, self identified ethnicity seems to correspond almost perfectly to [genetic clusters](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/). And just to repeat, because genes occur in different frequencies across clusters you might see statistical differences. I gave you an example here from [Clark’s data](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/12/recent-natural-selection-in-humans.html) of how you can get a significant shift in population traits over about a 1000 year period. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/250 "2011-04-28T01:25:44Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I’m referring to statistical differences in physical and cognitive characteristics. If you scroll down to the [discussion](http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/12/recent-natural-selection-in-humans.html) of Greg Clark’s data you’ll see how you can get a significant shift in population mean over a thousand year period. What other book do you have? Something about pyramids? ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/251 "2011-04-28T01:27:56Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > As I indicated above, self identified ethnicity seems to correspond almost perfectly to [genetic clusters](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/). And just to repeat, because genes occur in different frequencies across clusters you’re likely to see statistical differences. What is you origin? For your signature, it seems you are Chinese, isn’t? If so, are your ancestors from the North or from the South of China? Because, as any Chinese know, one of those groups is the “superior” and the other is the “inferior”. I don’t know which is which. After all, I can’t distinguish two chinese from each other. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/252 "2011-04-28T01:31:26Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > What is you origin? For your signature, it seems you are Chinese, isn’t? > If so, are your ancestors from the North or from the South of China? > Because, as any Chinese know, one of those groups is the “superior” and the other is the “inferior”. I don’t know which is which. After all, I can’t distinguish two chinese from each other. :smack: You seem to be getting off topic. In fact you’re now trying to use emotional rhetoric like “superior” and “inferior”. I’m referring to statistical differences. You know, empirical stuff. I’ve given you an example of how those differences can arise. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/253 "2011-04-28T01:36:02Z")
I see. You are Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/254 "2011-04-28T01:38:04Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > I see. You are Chinese. The Chinese have low crime rates wherever in the world they live. They tend to do well on IQ tests. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/255 "2011-04-28T01:38:47Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > By the way, 10.000 years is too short a time span for evolving. Evolution happens with every new generation. Humans have evolved lots over the last 10K years, mostly reacting to disease and new diets (e.g. dairy). ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/256 "2011-04-28T01:40:38Z")
> [@pinguin](#): > > I see. You are Chinese. This is why these discussions are so hard to have, people get caught up in tribal emotions & concerns of seeing others as better/worse. Remember if you’re talking about statistical differences you shouldn’t draw implications about individuals - so it’s not an excuse for prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/257 "2011-04-28T01:40:42Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The Chinese have low crime rates wherever in the world they live. They tend to do well on IQ tests. And what is your origin? I bet you are Polish, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/258 "2011-04-28T01:41:27Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > No Child Left Behind is accumulating data that different racial groups have had differing amounts of success in achieving the goals. I’m still waiting. NCLB was not created to address racial disparities, so _if_ the have not narrowed or changed (you haven’t posted any data, of course), that doesn’t prove those differences are innate and impossible to address. You also haven’t addressed any confounding factors like poverty. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/259 "2011-04-28T01:41:52Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This is why these discussions are so hard to have, people get caught up in tribal emotions & concerns of seeing others as better/worse. Remember if you’re talking about statistical differences you shouldn’t draw implications about individuals - so it’s not an excuse for prejudice. Prejudice? Look who is talking. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355/260 "2011-04-28T01:51:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m still waiting. NCLB was not created to address racial disparities, so _if_ the have not narrowed or changed (you haven’t posted any data, of course), that doesn’t prove those differences are innate and impossible to address. You also haven’t addressed any confounding factors like poverty. I have already posted this. Here it is again: > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > In 1995 whites whose parents only had high school degrees averaged higher IQ scores on the SAT than blacks whose parents had graduate degrees. > [File:1995-SAT-Education.png - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Education.png) > > Again, in 1995 whites whose family incomes were less than $10,000 had better average SAT scores than blacks whose family exceeded $70,000. > [File:1995-SAT-Income.png - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1995-SAT-Income.png) If you click on the following website, you will see that the race gap between white and black SAT scores has grown since 1990. It has continued to grow since 2001, when No Child Left Behind was inaugurated. > **[Fast Facts: SAT scores (171)](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171)** > > The NCES Fast Facts Tool provides quick answers to many education questions (National Center for Education Statistics). Get answers on Early Childhood Education, Elementary and Secondary Education and Higher Education here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-10-000-year-explosion-a-book-review/579355.md?page=14)