# The 100 Greatest Britons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931 "2002-08-21T15:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/21 "2002-08-22T12:45:49Z")
Is Madge English or American now ? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/22 "2002-08-22T12:47:54Z")
I’d vote for the Founding Fathers of the USA (as mentioned in the other thread). Possibly the most influential group of Englishmen in the history of the planet. Much more so than the Beatles. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2002, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/23 "2002-08-22T13:38:04Z")
_Still wondering how the hell Jeremy Irons got left off_ ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/24 "2002-08-23T04:50:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*The BBC has announced the results of a public opinion poll on the 100 Greatest Britons of all time. > > The results strongly suggest that drug abuse in the U.K. has gotten out of hand. > > \*\* I would suggest that the results aren’t due to drug abuse in the U.K., but to the general historical stupidity of most people who reside there. But, before my fellow Britans get offended, I, as an American, believe that the same sort of results for a list of the 100 greatest Americans would have yielded the same results. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/25 "2002-08-23T12:44:48Z")
Wait. Bog Leaper? do you mean Irish? Attention Britian. in a list of top 100 **Britons** it might be an idea only to include people who are actually Britons. Bono, Bob Geldof, Oscar Wilde… all Irish. As usual, when we do good, we’re British, but when we lose or are in jail, we’re Irish. BBC, GTF. James Connolly was actually Scottish, and I am pleased to see him on the list. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/26 "2002-08-23T13:13:34Z")
Don’t you get it? If they’re naughty, they’re Irish, if they’re good, they’re Brits. Ask Terry Wogan. I recall a (probably apocryphal) story about Bob Geldof meeting Thatcher after Live Aid: Thatch says “At last… a Brit with true grit.” Geldof said “I’m Irish,” and spat on the ground at her feet. However, the presence of Connolly makes me think that there was some kind of protest vote going on, since I doubt many Brits have even heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![EggNogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eb8c5e/32.png) [@EggNogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EggNogg)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/27 "2002-08-23T13:14:30Z")
It’s fairly representative of traditional Britain then. Xenophobic, historically ignorant, two-faced and dull. egg ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/28 "2002-08-23T13:55:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > **Attention Britian. in a list of top 100 Britons it might be an idea only to include people who are actually Britons.** Except that one can argue that people like Wilde or Connolly were British. It’s all a matter of definitions. The one used by the BBC was that it could include ‘anyone who was born in the British Isles, including Ireland; or anyone who lived in the British Isles, including Ireland, and who has played a significant part in the life of the British Isles’. > **[BBC - Programmes categorised as Factual: History](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/genres/factual/history)** > > Find BBC programmes categorised as "Factual: History". This is not that different from the definition that will be used by the ultra-PC \*New \*[sorry, _Oxford_] _Dictionary of National Biography_. [http://www.oup.co.uk/newdnb/questions/](http://www.oup.co.uk/newdnb/questions/) Conversely, the _Dictionary of Irish Biography_ will adopt a similar definition in reverse. [http://www.ria.ie/projects/dib.html](http://www.ria.ie/projects/dib.html) What definition would you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/29 "2002-08-23T14:43:44Z")
‘Cept Websters defines a Briton as “A native or inhabitant of Great Britain”. So the BBC title is incorrect, regardless of the dictionaries of national biographies’ catchment. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/30 "2002-08-23T14:50:11Z")
King William III, why isn’t he on the list? I mean, he’s as English as a windmill and a pair of clogs! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/31 "2002-08-23T15:12:59Z")
My point is that Irish People are not Britons, and that the poll is not 100 top Britons, but 100 top people who are British or Irish. We Irish get annoyed at being “claimed” by the British Media when we succeed, but revert to being Irish when we fail. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/32 "2002-08-23T16:35:55Z")
I doubt the BBC used any definition – it looks a bit like a free-form open mike session at the Comedy Store. I have no idea on the Irish Question. Living in this town where, if memory serves, 20%+ of people are one generation away from Irish heritage, blurs the boundaries into a nonsense. It’s just difficult to give a fuck about a survey that’s meaningless and redundant, IMHO. All I know is they’ve got half a football team and we get Bono - how’d that work ? Still, I’m clinging to the notion voters meant ‘Richard Burton’ the explorer and linguist rather than that Welsh sheepsha…ooops… Final thoughts: I think the answer is quite clear: If it was an online survey, I blame the Americans. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/33 "2002-08-23T22:48:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*My point is that Irish People are not Britons, and that the poll is not 100 top Britons, but 100 top people who are British or Irish. > > We Irish get annoyed at being “claimed” by the British Media when we succeed, but revert to being Irish when we fail. \*\* It is bloody annoying but in fairness to the Brits the Irish have a tendency to do more or less the same thing. Do you really think the RTÉ commentators would have been fawning over the number of Irish surnames in the USA national team if they’d lost every game 5-0? And haven’t you noticed how whether an Irish person considers the Kennedys “Irish” or “American” depends upon whether or not that Irish person _likes_ the Kennedys? (And for “the Kennedys”, you can substitute the name of any person born in another country of Irish descent.) One of the stupidest things I ever heard was an Irishman dismissing Eamon de Valera as “an American”. I mean, Dev lived in the States for all of what, three years? And then there’s the unionist farmers up North who were quite happy to call their cows Irish when the ban on British beef was imposed … but I digress … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/34 "2002-08-23T23:39:08Z")
Where the hell is H.G. Wells? Bertrand Russel? George Orwell? C.S. Lewis? PLEASE don’t tell me the average Brit is just as illiterate as the average Yank! ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/35 "2002-08-24T02:34:50Z")
For popular culture, how can John Cleese (or maybe Peter Sellers) and Sean Connery not be on the list, but Boy George is? How on earth can Adam Smith not be there? Maybe David Hume? John Knox? Any of them has got to be more important than Beckham…though maybe their wives aren’t as hot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/36 "2002-08-24T18:14:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*King William III, why isn’t he on the list? I mean, he’s as English as a windmill and a pair of clogs! 🙂 \*\* Wasn’t his mother a Stuart? Also, windmills, dikes, and tullips are not unique to The Netherlands. If you travel to Lincolnshire, England particularly around The Wash, you will find plenty of windmills, simple dikes and reclaimed land, and an annual tullip festival at Spalding. I don’t know about clogs though. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/37 "2002-08-24T18:47:22Z")
Tulips are actually from Turkey, originally. We just traded them a lot in the 150-1600’s, hence the association. Windmills are older than Holland - but they are typical to our _poldering_ system: building dykes into marshland or plain lakes, and then pumping out the water with mills. The clogs? I’m sure we stole those somewhere too. Scandinavian countries have them too. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/38 "2002-08-24T19:10:15Z")
Gobear already reflected my sentiment… no Roger Waters? I am glad to see that Tolkien is on the list, though. I’d have to insist that we nuke the British if he weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/39 "2002-08-24T19:28:47Z")
Talking about King William III, I was reminded of King William I. I mean how did he not manage to get on the list? And for that matter, what about Hengist and Horsa. They included the bare breasted Celtic queen, but she was a loser. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931/40 "2002-08-25T01:59:11Z")
Where the bloody hell is Terry Pratchett? Neil Gaiman? Peter F. Hamilton? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-greatest-britons/124931.md?page=3)