# The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080 "2010-04-14T16:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/221 "2010-05-03T03:17:36Z")
Inventors: William Morton Leaders: Peter the Great Philosophy: Ludwig von Beethoven Religion: Asoka Science: Galileo Galilei I changed my mind on one- I’d been voting for Cyrus earlier, but have switched to Peter the Great. Russia would have become the leading regional power with almost ANY tsar or tsarina. Peter changed Russia far less than he wanted to, far less than he’s reputed to have. As for Morton… his accomplishments were real enough, but a lot of doctors (including Crawford Long) had been using anaesthetics with some degree of success. Morton came up with an effective delivery system, but given the zeitgeist, I think someone else would have done so before long. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/222 "2010-05-03T07:02:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Host] > Corollary question: What names (limit yourself to five) would you have on the list? > [/Host] I’d include Alan Turing, Sun Tzu, Nicola Tesla, Leonardo Da Vinci and Norman Borlaug. I think Da Vinci belongs on the list more than some of the other artists like Michelangelo. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/223 "2010-05-03T07:34:19Z")
**Invention** Louis Dagurre, Scientist, Invented Photography **Leaders** Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China **Philosophy and the Arts** Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism **Religion** Asoka, Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism **Science** Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/224 "2010-05-03T13:11:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Host] > Corollary question: What names (limit yourself to five) would you have on the list? > [/Host] Leader: A little surprised that Abe Lincoln didn’t make the cut. Certainly a pivotal figure in US history. Science: I guess Watson and Crick for their double helix is worth mention, just because this kick started so many other projects. Religion: Brigham Young because I can’t think of anyone else to put there. Arts: D. W. Griffith who showed the world how to make a movie, and he’s still considered one of the great directors. Invention: Bill Gates. Maybe he did steal most of the concepts, but DOS became the template to everything we consider computers now. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/225 "2010-05-03T13:26:43Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > **Invention** > Louis Dagurre, Scientist, Invented Photography > **Leaders** > Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China > **Philosophy and the Arts** > Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism > **Religion** > Asoka, Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism > **Science** > Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb [Host] Formatting rules, please repost, etc etc etc. Danke. Others: **And what’s with the colons ( : ) ? Separate the category and name by a period (.)** [/Host] ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/226 "2010-05-03T13:45:24Z")
Invention. Marconi Leader. Peter the Great Philosophy. Voltaire Religion. John Calvin Science. Copernicus Marconi only barely beat Tesla to the mark (if he did). The rest are repeats. For influential people left off the list - is “living” a disqualifier? I’d be tempted to nominate George Lucas for his influence on filmmaking. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/227 "2010-05-03T14:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > I think Da Vinci belongs on the list more than some of the other artists like Michelangelo. I disagree. Leonardo was famous but he wasn’t really influential. He wasn’t prolific as an artist and he didn’t establish any new schools of art. And his scientific “inventions” were just fantasy - he never studied the fundamental engineering of how things actually worked. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/228 "2010-05-03T14:12:07Z")
Invention. Orville and Wilbur Wright Leaders. Charlemagne Philosophy. Voltaire Religion. Asoka Science. James Clerk Marxwell Asoka and Marxwell are new, and I admit to not knowing a whole lot about either one. And I think Moses deserves to stick around, because although he may be mythological, there is no denying the influence of the myths attributed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/229 "2010-05-03T14:14:34Z")
Hey John, could you please please fix the typo in James Clerk Maxwell’s last name next time you post an update? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/230 "2010-05-03T14:16:36Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Asoka and Marxwell are new, and I admit to not knowing a whole lot about either one. And I think Moses deserves to stick around, because although he may be mythological, there is no denying the influence of the myths attributed to him. See, the thing about Moses (and Homer, for that matter) is that we’re not sure that the things attributed to him were the work of one person. (I’m not voting for Moses at the moment, but I might after Calvin and maybe Asoka are gone). ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/231 "2010-05-03T14:29:54Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > See, the thing about Moses (and Homer, for that matter) is that we’re not sure that the things attributed to him were the work of one person. We’re not even sure the things attributed to him ocurred at all (eg the Exodus). But I’m looking at the influence of the myth, not the veracity. There’s no rule about voting either way though. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/232 "2010-05-03T14:54:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Hey John, could you please please fix the typo in James Clerk Maxwell’s last name next time you post an update? Done. It should be fixed by the next round. However, people still copying their previous votes will still have “Marxwell”. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/233 "2010-05-03T16:16:20Z")
Invention. Orville and Wilbur Wright Leader. Genghis Khan Philosophy. Michelangelo Religion. John Calvin Science. Leonhard Euler * * * If Bell’s gone then the Wright brothers should be gone for the same reason. I’m sticking by my reasoning for Genghis Khan! Boy I’m going to look like such a genius when he’s eventually voted off!..in the last couple of rounds… 😉 I think in the religion category, we’re rapidly getting down to some of the more famous historical figures to have ever lived. It’s like the heavyweight division now, most of the remainders either started a religion or was critical to a religion. I’m going with voting off the newest guy. Sorry Calvin! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/234 "2010-05-03T17:01:15Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > We’re not even sure the things attributed to him ocurred at all (eg the Exodus). But I’m looking at the influence of the myth, not the veracity. There’s no rule about voting either way though. I think there are three separate excellent reasons for eliminating fictional people early on. (1) An obvious test is to ask “How different would the world be if X (e.g. Moses) had never lived at all?” For those who already think X never lived at all, the answer is “No different!” (2) If mythical persons get credit for their mythical deeds, it would become silly. Adam, Eve and Noah might be the three finalists. (3) The fact that this is “Try the third” shows that care is needed to define the criteria; I thought we’d agreed to use Hart’s; he insists on non-fictionality. (He includes Moses and Homer on his list because he thinks they were real people.) I didn’t vote for Moses and Homer in the earliest rounds simply because I find it only likely but _not certain_ that they were fictional. By the way, charges of fictionality have also been levied against Lao Tzu and Ts’ai Lun. I hope those making those allegations will post supporting URL’s. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/235 "2010-05-03T17:15:23Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought we’d agreed to use Hart’s; he insists on non-fictionality. _Somebody_ might have agreed to stipulate using Hart’s criteria, but the person hosting _this_ game didn’t. 😉 And anyway, using the Hart criteria is irrelevant because we “know” who would win by Hart’s criteria - Mohammed. If we’re going to use his reasoning, why have the contest at all? 😕 Again, the rule: In each round, vote for one person (within each category) as the least influential person of the remaining names. How you define “least influential” is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/236 "2010-05-03T17:32:10Z")
**septimus** - I don’t disagree on any particular point. I think I am looking at “Moses” as a stand-in for the author(s)/compiler(s) of the Jewish Law and first five books of the Jewish/Christian Bible – much like “Homer” is a stand-in for the author of the _Illiad_ and Lun for the original inventor of paper. In that respect, “Moses” is more influential than Adam or Noah or many of the other people on the list (IMO). Similarly, when it comes to voting for Jesus, I’ll be taking “Jesus” to mean the figure described in the Gospels and tradition as opposed to limiting consideration to what we know about the actual, historical figure. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/237 "2010-05-03T17:40:38Z")
Last day for this round, by the way… ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/238 "2010-05-04T12:31:48Z")
Inventions. Orville and Wilbur Wright Leader. Cyrus the Great Philosophy and Arts. Michelangelo Religion. ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab Science. Ernest Rutherford ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/239 "2010-05-04T12:47:21Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I think there are three separate excellent reasons for eliminating fictional people early on. > > (1) An obvious test is to ask “How different would the world be if X (e.g. Moses) had never lived at all?” For those who already think X never lived at all, the answer is “No different!” > > (2) If mythical persons get credit for their mythical deeds, it would become silly. Adam, Eve and Noah might be the three finalists. > > (3) The fact that this is “Try the third” shows that care is needed to define the criteria; I thought we’d agreed to use Hart’s; he insists on non-fictionality. (He includes Moses and Homer on his list because he thinks they were real people.) > > I didn’t vote for Moses and Homer in the earliest rounds simply because I find it only likely but _not certain_ that they were fictional. > > By the way, charges of fictionality have also been levied against Lao Tzu and Ts’ai Lun. I hope those making those allegations will post supporting URL’s. 1. But nowhere is Prometheus being credited for creating people and giving them fire. Moses is still linked directly to two current subjects: Passover and the 10 commandments. There is zero evidence of a series of plagues hitting Egypt resulting in the expulsion of a people and burning bushes are terrible at giving dictation, but like Jesus, the myth remains a powerful force today. 2. Cain would get my vote for the first murder, but some myths, (again Moses and Jesus), have greater impact than others, like Noah or his earlier version, Gilgamesh. As such, I see St. Augustine, and for that matter Pope Urban, as more influential than Jesus. Jesus didn’t write books, nor lead armies to their doom. His followers did. Believing god is guiding your actions doesn’t pass the blame of disaster back up to heaven. Poor translations of the bible have also had a huge impact on Western society. But that’s a different thread. 3. Homer is a handy name to give to the league of people who helped create the Iliad and the ruins of Troy have been found. And hey, once again, Passover and the commandments are enough to make Moses worth noting. Not to worry, Homer is gone and Moses won’t last much longer. Agree with the curious remarks on Lao Tzu and Ts’ai Lun. Lao Tzu especially still has a huge impact on China. The Tao is the corner stone to Chinese bureaucracy, and if not for that, they would have taken over centuries ago. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/240 "2010-05-04T14:20:52Z")
Round 7 is over! The losers are: **Category, Name, # of votes** R, John Calvin, 6 S, Leonhard Euler, 4 P, Ludwig Von Beethoven, 4 I, Orville and Wilbur Wright, 8 L, Peter the Great, 5 Almost done with the artists - I think only Michaelangelo is next. I feel that Euler lost because of a very low Q score - his brand isn’t very well known. 😉 Remaing names for round 8: **Inventions** Alexander Fleming, Scientist, Invented Penicillin Antony van Leeuwenhoek, Scientist, Inventor of Microscope Edward Jenner, Scientist, Developed Vaccination for Smallpox Gugilemo Marconi, Scientist, Invented Radio Henry Ford, American Industrialist, Developed Mass Production Techniques James Watt, British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine Johann Gutenberg, Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press Joseph Lister, Scientist, Developed Antiseptic Methods Louis Dagurre, Scientist, Invented Photography Nikolaus August Otto, Scientist, Developed Internal Combustion Engine Thomas Edison, American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions Ts’ai Lun, Scientist, Inventor of Paper William TG Morton, Scientist, Invented Anaesthesia **Leaders** Adolf Hitler, German Dictator, Started World War II Alexander the Great, Macedonian Ruler, Formed Macedonian Empire Augustus Caesar, Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire Charlemagne, Frankish Monarch, Founder of Holy Roman Empire Cyrus the Great, Persian Emperor, Founded Persian Emperor Genghis Khan, Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire George Washington, American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States Josef Stalin, Dictator of USSR, Expanded Communism Julius Caesar, Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars Lenin, Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia Mao Zedong, Chinese Dictator, Established Communism in China Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor, Waged Napoleonic Wars Queen Elizabeth I, Queen of England, Made England a Naval Power Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China William the Conquerer, Norman Duke and English King, Led In Norman Conquest of England **Philosophy and Arts** Adam Smith, Economist, Advocated Capitalism Aristotle, Greek Philosopher Confucius, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism Francis Bacon, Philosopher, Developed Scientific Method John Locke, British Philosopher, Developed Democratic Ideas Karl Marx, Economist, Founder of Communism Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism Michelangelo, Artist, Sculptor Nicoli Machiavelli, Political Theorist Plato, Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism Thomas Jefferson, American Statesman, Wrote Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase Voltaire, French Philosopher William Shakespeare, English Playwright **Religions** ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, Muslim Caliph, Expanded the Caliphate Asoka, Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism Buddha, Founder of Buddhism Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor, Tolerated and Promoted Christianity in Rome Jesus Christ, Founder of Christianity Martin Luther, Theologian, Started Protestantism and Reformation Mohammed, Founder of Islam Moses, Jewish Prophet St Augustine, Christian Theologian St Paul, Christian Missionary and Apostle **Sciences** Albert Einstein, Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity Charles Darwin, British Scientist, Theory of Evolution Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb Ernest Rutherford, Scientist, Developed Subatomic Physics Euclid, Greek Mathematician Galileo Galilei, Scientist, Advocated Heliocentricity Isaac Newton, British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion James Clerk Maxwell, Scientist, Electromagnetism Johannes Kepler, Scientist, Developed Theories of Planetary Motion John Dalton, Scientist, Atomic Theory Louis Pasteur, Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease Max Planck, Scientist, Developed Therodynamics Michael Faraday, British Scientist, Discovered Electromagnetism Nicolas Copernicus, Scientist, Theory of Heliocentricity **Boozahol Squid, P.I.** , I didn’t count your votes. Please follow the formatting rules in the future. Thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=13)