# The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080 "2010-04-14T16:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/281 "2010-05-08T12:31:42Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Maxwell? Good grief folks - what were you thinking? We were thinking that, after a certain point, ANYBODY we vote out is going to be someone genuinely important and brilliant in his/her field. That’s the nature of a winnowing process like this. VERY few people on this list WEREN’T people of great consequence! ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/282 "2010-05-08T12:47:11Z")
I: Louis Dagurre L: George Washington P: Nicoli Machiavelli R: Martin Luther S: Louis Pasteur First time voter, but here’s my reasoning: Daguerre: while revolutionary at the time, I think he’s been eclipsed and that method of photography will be lost to history. It’s kind of like saying the person who invented the sled did as much for human history as the person who invented the wheel: similar, yet the later invention was far superior. Washington: personally, I feel he gets too much credit (yes, I’m American.) He did some great things for the country, but really, the real genius of Team Founding Fathers was Jefferson. It’s not like he united the warring tribes and created the US single handedly. Machiavelli: Another overrated person for a fairly bland bunch of ideas. “The Prince” is nothing compared to “Leadership Secrets of Ghengis Khan,” and it loses it’s relevance in a democratic society. Martin Luther: Again, overrated. He wasn’t the first to point out problems with the Catholic Church, and what happened later was inevitable even if Luther never lived. Pasteur: I don’t think he invented germ theory, nor discovered germs. GJ making milk safer to drink though. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/283 "2010-05-08T17:26:05Z")
Inventors. Joseph Lister Leaders. Queen Elizabeth I Philosophy. Francis Bacon Religion. St Augustine Science. Nicolas Copernicus While I’d have waited a few more rounds to bump Maxwell off, I’m far more perturbed by the impending dismissal of Galileo. The argument that can be used against him (that others were on the verge of the same discoveries) can also be applied against Darwin. In fact the great importance of Galileo and Darwin derives from their influential _writings_. Great scientists from the earliest Age of Science are of necessity _more influential_ than 20th-century scientists. There were many other scientists who might have played the roles of Rutherford or Fermi had those greats never lived, but it was the very _paucity_ of 17th-century scientists which might make Galileo and Kepler irreplaceable. I don’t claim to be expert on the history of science. That’s why I listen to expert scientists. At the very begining of Wiki article we find a quote by Stephen Hawking: > [@](#): > > “Galileo, perhaps more than any other single person, was responsible for the birth of modern science.” and there is much similar praise for Galileo. (As for 19th-century Maxwell, others were on the verge of the same discoveries. And note that the elegant Maxwell’s Equations were actually written down by Oliver Heaviside.) > [@astorian](#): > > We were thinking that, after a certain point, ANYBODY we vote out is going to be someone genuinely important and brilliant in his/her field. That’s the nature of a winnowing process like this. > > VERY few people on this list WEREN’T people of great consequence! 😕 😕 That’s really no excuse for eliminating people who clearly should be finalists before people who probably didn’t even belong in the Top 100. > [@Superhal](#): > > Pasteur: I don’t think he invented germ theory, nor discovered germs. GJ making milk safer to drink though. I _really_ wish **JohnT** had deleted the highly misleading summaries long ago. While Pasteur did develop _pasteur_ization, develop germ theory and explain fermentation, perhaps none of these rank among his two greatest advances: discovery of stereochemistry and developing the first artificial vaccines. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/284 "2010-05-08T21:05:50Z")
**Septimus** , I would be surprised 1 person in a hundred equates Pasteur with stereochemistry. I’m not an idiot (nor am I a scientist) and your post is the first time I ever heard the word. So I disagree with the notion that the summaries are highly misleading, especially if they touch on what the person is most influential _for_. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/285 "2010-05-08T21:35:51Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > **Septimus** , I would be surprised 1 person in a hundred equates Pasteur with stereochemistry. I’m not an idiot (nor am I a scientist) and your post is the first time I ever heard the word. > > So I disagree with the notion that the summaries are highly misleading, especially if they touch on what the person is most influential _for_. 😕 😕 Are you defining “influential” in terms of popular familiarity? I’m not too proud to admit I wiki’ed some of the less-familiar names on the list. (Though not Louis Pasteur.) From [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereochemistry): > [@](#): > > Stereochemistry is a hugely important facet of chemistry… > Louis Pasteur could rightly be described as the first stereochemist, having observed in 1849 that salts of tartaric acid collected from wine production vessels could rotate plane polarized light, but that salts from other sources did not. I stand by my claim that the poor six-word synapses have grossly misled some of the players here. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/286 "2010-05-08T22:36:40Z")
Inventor. Joseph Lister Leader. Cyrus the Great Philosophy. Lao Tzu Religion. St. Augustine Science. Ernest Rutherford Only Cyrus and Lao Tzu are holdovers this round. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/287 "2010-05-09T00:22:55Z")
Inventions. Louis Dagurre Leaders. Queen Elizabeth I Philosophy and Arts. Nicoli Machiavelli Religions. St Augustine Sciences. John Dalton And **Tom** : I had to let Beethoven go but if you vote out Shakespeare who not only wrote some of the most enduring and univerally translatable plays in history but also added more words and phrases to the English language than anyone else,I will come around to your house and bite you on the kneecaps. Which would still less cruel that the boy band thing. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/288 "2010-05-09T12:53:16Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Inventors. Joseph Lister > Leaders. Queen Elizabeth I > Philosophy. Francis Bacon > Religion. St Augustine > Science. Nicolas Copernicus > > While I’d have waited a few more rounds to bump Maxwell off, I’m far more perturbed by the impending dismissal of Galileo. The argument that can be used against him (that others were on the verge of the same discoveries) can also be applied against Darwin. In fact the great importance of Galileo and Darwin derives from their influential _writings_. > > 😕 😕 That’s really no excuse for eliminating people who clearly should be finalists before people who probably didn’t even belong in the Top 100. But this whole thing is subjective. You’re defending Galileo at the same time as dismissing Lister, Queen Elizabeth I, Francis Bacon, St. Augustine, Copernicus. Each one of those people could be argued as having lasting impact upon the world today. Seeing how this begins with the whole of human endeavor reduced to 100 people, it seems clear that “favorites” are going to get the boot and others are going to stick around longer --due to oversight or the chances of whim. Don’t take it personally, there’s nothing logical about this at all. It’s all fun and games. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/289 "2010-05-09T20:54:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I _really_ wish **JohnT** had deleted the highly misleading summaries long ago. While Pasteur did develop _pasteur_ization, develop germ theory and explain fermentation, perhaps none of these rank among his two greatest advances: discovery of stereochemistry and developing the first artificial vaccines. I went and looked at his Wiki entry after posting this and my original reasoning holds true: he wasn’t the first, but he developed other people’s ideas. When comparing the discoverer vs the developer, I always give more credit to the discoverer, because they are usually fighting against “established” science at the time. The 2nd person is the one who usually gets the acclaim but doesn’t take the same risks of proposing a totally new and possibly controversial idea. Galileo is a good case in point. On one hand, you can say he was one of a group of scientists/philosophers who discovered heliocentrism. His willingness to stand by his theory in the face of death adds a level of integrity and bravery to his story that someone like Pasteur didn’t need to do. “Influential,” to me, doesn’t mean “being smart enough to figure out which ideas are worth examining.” It means changing the status quo, battling ignorance, and risking professional and personal sanctions in the process. In other words, I try to include the social, political and scientific issues of the time in judging their accomplishments. ps. Where’s Sun Tzu? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/290 "2010-05-10T02:31:48Z")
For those who may be interested, I’m making another attempt at a [Most Evil People Poll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562577). ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/291 "2010-05-10T05:45:12Z")
Inventions. Louis Dagurre Leaders. George Washington Philosophy. Nicoli Machiavelli Religion. St Augustine Sciences. Nicolas Copernicus Well as a first ballot I’ll keep my mouth shut and decorously wait for the round to end before spouting off about injustices. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/292 "2010-05-10T12:33:12Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > ps. Where’s Sun Tzu? Not included in the original list. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/293 "2010-05-10T16:37:25Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Galileo is a good case in point. On one hand, you can say he was one of a group of scientists/philosophers who discovered heliocentrism. His willingness to stand by his theory in the face of death adds a level of integrity and bravery to his story that someone like Pasteur didn’t need to do. > > "? In the face of death? You are aware that Galileo was not executed, aren’t you? The punishment he received was loose house arrest, and he died of old age. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/294 "2010-05-10T21:15:14Z")
Round 9 is over! The losers are: **Category, Name, # of Votes** S, Galileo Galilei, 4 I, Louis Dagurre, 7 P, Nicoli Machiavelli, 6 L, Queen Elizabeth I, 4 R, St Augustine, 7 Queen Elizabeth lost in a tie-breaker to Cyrus the Great. The big shocker is Galileo, #12 on the original list. Remaining entries are: **Invention** Alexander Fleming, Scientist, Invented Penicillin Antony van Leeuwenhoek, Scientist, Inventor of Microscope Edward Jenner, Scientist, Developed Vaccination for Smallpox Gugilemo Marconi, Scientist, Invented Radio Henry Ford, American Industrialist, Developed Mass Production Techniques James Watt, British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine Johann Gutenberg, Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press Joseph Lister, Scientist, Developed Antiseptic Methods Nikolaus August Otto, Scientist, Developed Internal Combustion Engine Thomas Edison, American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions Ts’ai Lun, Scientist, Inventor of Paper **Leaders** Adolf Hitler, German Dictator, Started World War II Alexander the Great, Macedonian Ruler, Formed Macedonian Empire Augustus Caesar, Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire Cyrus the Great, Persian Emperor, Founded Persian Emperor Genghis Khan, Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire George Washington, American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States Josef Stalin, Dictator of USSR, Expanded Communism Julius Caesar, Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars Lenin, Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia Mao Zedong, Chinese Dictator, Established Communism in China Napoleon Bonaparte, French Emperor, Waged Napoleonic Wars Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China William the Conquerer, Norman Duke and English King, Led In Norman Conquest of England **Philosophy** Adam Smith, Economist, Advocated Capitalism Aristotle, Greek Philosopher Confucius, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism Francis Bacon, Philosopher, Developed Scientific Method John Locke, British Philosopher, Developed Democratic Ideas Karl Marx, Economist, Founder of Communism Lao Tzu, Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism Michelangelo, Artist, Sculptor Plato, Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism Thomas Jefferson, American Statesman, Wrote Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase William Shakespeare, English Playwright **Religion** ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab, Muslim Caliph, Expanded the Caliphate Buddha, Founder of Buddhism Constantine the Great, Roman Emperor, Tolerated and Promoted Christianity in Rome Jesus Christ, Founder of Christianity Martin Luther, Theologian, Started Protestantism and Reformation Mohammed, Founder of Islam Moses, Jewish Prophet St Paul, Christian Missionary and Apostle **Science** Albert Einstein, Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity Charles Darwin, British Scientist, Theory of Evolution Enrico Fermi, Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb Ernest Rutherford, Scientist, Developed Subatomic Physics Euclid, Greek Mathematician Isaac Newton, British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion Johannes Kepler, Scientist, Developed Theories of Planetary Motion John Dalton, Scientist, Atomic Theory Louis Pasteur, Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease Max Planck, Scientist, Developed Therodynamics Michael Faraday, British Scientist, Discovered Electromagnetism Nicolas Copernicus, Scientist, Theory of Heliocentricity ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/295 "2010-05-10T21:18:28Z")
Of course, I realized I forgot to vote in round 9. I also posted the results prior to this realization, so _c’est la vie_. My round 10 votes are: Inventors. Nikolaus August Otto Leaders. Mao Zedong Philosophy. Lao Tzu Religion. Constantine Science. John Dalton ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/296 "2010-05-10T21:26:40Z")
Inventions. Louis Dagurre Leaders. Adolf Hitler Philosophy and Arts. Michelangelo Religion. 'Umar ibn al-Khattab Science. Nicolas Copernicus ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/297 "2010-05-10T21:36:19Z")
Wow, I’m sorry to see Elizabeth go. She literally defined an era in Western culture, and is the person most responsible for the eccesiastical compromise known as Anglicanism. Sorry Liz! I’m also somewhat astonished that Augustine was ousted before Luther, when Luther himself was heavily influenced by Augustine. C’mon people! That makes no sense! Invention. Henry Ford Leaders. Josef Stalin Philosophy. Lao Tzu Religion. Martin Luther Science. Louis Pasteur Other than the Religion category, I’m somewhat flailing here. I’m pretty confident about Ford and can defend Stalin but for the others, I’ll probably regret my votes in five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/298 "2010-05-10T22:09:52Z")
Wowsers, three scalps in Rnd 9. Inventions. Nikolaus August Otto Leader. Adolf Hitler Philosophy. Michelangelo Religion. Moses Science. John Dalton Rationale (though as a Galileocide, claiming reason may be incongruous) Otto, a bit like the Wrights he got his patent in first. His design was materially better than his near competitors Whatever Hitler founded, it had the shortest life of the remaining leaders. Michelangelo, it’s an odious simplification but for most people is his influence more than a marble statue and some interior decorating? Moses because … well I’ve voted for him in the past 5 rounds and nobody has advanced any reason to change Dalton, only on the limp premise that his theory has been more modified than the others. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/299 "2010-05-10T22:13:03Z")
> [@XanderCrews](#): > > Inventions. Louis Dagurre > Leaders. Adolf Hitler > Philosophy and Arts. Michelangelo > Religion. 'Umar ibn al-Khattab > Science. Nicolas Copernicus Dagurre is already Dagonne. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/300 "2010-05-10T22:22:24Z")
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