# The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080 "2010-04-14T16:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/381 "2010-05-19T04:36:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I see no votes against Jesus yet; are some worried about being compared with Judas Iscariot and Pontius Pilate? That didn’t seem to be a problem the last couple of attempts at this idea. In fact, people were genuinely eager to vote Jesus out. But granted, it was like he wasn’t even trying at the Immunity Challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/382 "2010-05-19T04:39:04Z")
Inventor. James Watt Leader. William the Conquerer Philosophy. Plato Religion. Paul Science. Johannes Kepler ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/383 "2010-05-19T10:21:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That didn’t seem to be a problem the last couple of attempts at this idea. In fact, people were genuinely eager to vote Jesus out. But you have to factor in the “let’s piss off the guy trying to rig the contest in Jesus’ favor” element in those. Two replacements this round: Inventions. Joseph Lister Leaders. Josef Stalin Philosophy. Karl Marx Religion. Buddha Science. John Dalton ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/384 "2010-05-19T10:38:59Z")
Inventors. Joseph Lister Leaders. Mao Zedong Philosophy. Plato Religion. Moses Science. Johannes Kepler ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/385 "2010-05-19T11:39:09Z")
Inventions. Antony van Leeuwenhoek Leader. Napoleon Bonaparte Philosophy. Plato Religion. Moses Science. Johannes Kepler ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/386 "2010-05-19T11:41:41Z")
Inventions. Joseph Lister Leader. George Washington Philosophy. John Locke Religion. Moses Science. John Dalton Round 12 reprised. If nothing else it saves having to work out some excuse why one immensely eminent is slightly less eminent than the immensely eminent I voted for last round. I think of it as my variant of Ockham’s razor. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/387 "2010-05-19T12:38:50Z")
Inventions. Joseph Lister Leaders. Mao Zedong Philosophy. Francis Bacon Religion. Buddha Science. Max Planck Wow. 5 for 5, so a whole new slate. All of these are tough. China ultimately moved away from communism (whether they admit it or not); Buddhism is less influential than the 3 monotheistic religions (Judaism both in itself and as the basis for the other two); Planck is another 20th century physicist though I’ve just about run out of those. In terms of philosophers, Bacon, Locke, and sad to say Shakespeare seem to be on a lower tier than the other remaining ones, probably followed by the two economists. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/388 "2010-05-19T13:30:29Z")
Invention. Antony van Leeuwenhoek Leader. Julius Caesar Philosophy. Confucius Religion. Moses Science. John Dalton Just one new face, Julius Caesar, creator of the Orange Julius, a horrible drink made from OJ and vanilla ice cream, which resulted in him being stabbed to death. Augustus made the Roman Empire work, Julius was a stepping stone. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/389 "2010-05-19T15:00:21Z")
> [@Uncle\_Goat](#): > > Of all the things Jesus was, and of all the things he might have been, he was never ever a “Christian.” That burden belongs to other people. [snip] So once you boil away all that is Jesus from all that is not, even a crazy person could see that Luther has more influence than the so called son of god. You seem to be refuting an argument I didn’t make. Jesus wasn’t a “Christian”, he didn’t leave behind any writings, he didn’t lead an army or conquer lands or have political power. Yet, _billions_ of people going back 20 centuries have re-oriented their lives to live according to what they have thought Jesus would approve (even if they were wrong). He has inspired more art, music, and literature than another other person to have ever lived. He has been used to justify wars, social upheavals, and colonization. He was the life-focus of Luther, Augustine, Paul, and every other Christian on the list we started with. You can argue that he never did any of these things personally – you can even argue he never really existed in terms of the myths we have about him – but I can’t fathom how you can’t consider him one of, if not the, most influential characters in (at least Western) culture. My votes coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/390 "2010-05-19T15:07:05Z")
Luther was my only successful vote last round. Inventions. Joseph Lister Leaders. Josef Stalin Philosophy. John Locke Religion. Buddha Science. John Dalton Not a good round to be named Joe or John. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/391 "2010-05-19T15:07:55Z")
Or Sid. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/392 "2010-05-19T15:08:59Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Inventions. Joseph Lister > Leaders. Josef Stalin > Philosophy. John Locke > Religion. Buddha > Science. John Dalton > > Not a good round to be named Joe or John. Joe-tama Buddha? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/393 "2010-05-19T15:12:18Z")
Buddha’s friends call him “Joe.” I think it’s the first step toward enlightenment or something. I thought that was common knowledge! ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/394 "2010-05-19T15:32:32Z")
Invention. Joseph Lister Leaders. Mao Zedong Philosophy. Francis Bacon Religion. Buddha Science. John Dalton Sniff, goodbye Ernest Rutherford. One of my favorite quotes in science is his remark after observing the alpha particle/gold foil experiment: “It was quite the most incredible event that has ever happened to me in my life. It was almost as incredible as if you fired a 15-inch shell at a piece of tissue paper and it came back and hit you.” ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/395 "2010-05-19T16:27:17Z")
Inventors. Joseph Lister Leaders. Mao Zedong Philosophy. Shakespeare Religion. Buddha Science. John Dalton If we weren’t memorizing Romeo and Juliet we’d be memorizing something else. It’s time for the last artist to go. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/396 "2010-05-19T18:11:29Z")
Inventors. Joseph Lister Leaders. Napoleon Bonaparte Philosophy. Francis Bacon Religion. Moses Science. John Dalton ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/397 "2010-05-19T20:09:21Z")
Invention. Alexander Fleming Leaders. William the Conqueror Philosophy. Francis Bacon Religion. Buddha Science. Michael Faraday ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/398 "2010-05-20T01:48:27Z")
Inventor. Joseph Lister Leader. William the Conqueror Philosophy. John Locke Religion. Buddha Science. John Dalton Last two are the “newbies”. I considered Paul in religion, but ultimately allowed my Western bias to dictate my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/399 "2010-05-20T04:04:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > You seem to be refuting an argument I didn’t make. Always possible. Doing things online where one can’t see facial expressions or hear the tone of the voice often leads to confusion and misunderstanding. I was trying to point out the difference between the Church, meaning Roman Catholicism, and Jesus. yeah, one can’t exist without the other… until Luther nailed up his note. Nonetheless, I do want to look at these points: > [@](#): > > He has inspired more art, music, and literature than another other person to have ever lived. I might have to concede the art. If you ever get a chance, visit a museum featuring Mexican folk art. Holy Mother of Mercy! Absolutely no one suffers like the Mexican Christ. And the Last Supper might be slightly more parodied than Grant Wood’s American Gothic, but it’s a close call. Music is a trickier thing to consider. Unlike the current morons running the recording industry, it has always been known that musicians feed off one another, improvise, borrow and rework existing pieces for their own needs. This now gets a musician sued. Anyway one could make an argument that Mozart, Wagner and Beethoven have influenced more music than anyone else, and that the church’s influence upon them was minimal, where it was not negative. Literature has been more clearly moved by William Shakespeare than by Jesus. Literature is a thinking man’s activity. Worshiping Jesus any clod can do. As far as pop culture goes, I think vampires are highest appearing figure these days, and they don’t burst into flames when touched by the shadow of the cross anymore. > [@](#): > > He has been used to justify wars, social upheavals, and colonization. He was the life-focus of Luther, Augustine, Paul, and every other Christian on the list we started with. As mentioned last time, I think it becomes handy for some people to pick on Jesus as this great motivation for good – or evil – but you have to look at who is making the claim. Again, there is a huge difference between “influence” and “handy excuse.” If Jesus is telling you to bomb a third world nation and use guns to force democracy upon a people who have no tradition for democracy, I don’t think one can safely assume Jesus gets the credit for those war crimes. Murdering people in name of the lord doesn’t mean the lord is murdering people. Don’t give credit where it isn’t due. > [@](#): > > I can’t fathom how you can’t consider him one of, if not the, most influential characters in (at least Western) culture. Not denying his influence, haven’t picked on him yet. Just again stating that acting out in The Name of Jesus is not actually acting out in his name. Take note of the number of times that god agrees perfectly with the person to whom god is speaking. I have yet to hear of a preacher tell his flock that god told him he was an idiot that everybody should stop giving their money away to support his life style. Very few actual Christians live by the Sermon of the Mount. Very hard to turn the other cheek. Very very hard to love thy neighbor as you would love thy self. Praying on Sunday is an obligation to a family tradition, and some actually do get benefit from it. But those are all _institutions_ that have the influence. Jesus remains sadly aloof, ritualized, unknowable without some earthly intermediary. As such, his influence can be arbitrary at best. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/400 "2010-05-20T14:37:11Z")
Fair enough, **Uncle Goat**. I’ll agree that many people have acted _nominally_ in Jesus’ name but don’t actually seem to be familiar with the words of Jesus. In terms of literature, I was thinking of the influence that stories and letters in the New Testament have had throughout western literature, including Shakespeare. They are a cultural touchstone, especially in earlier centuries. But as a matter of fact, I very well may end up voting for Jesus before Paul; I think Paul had a much bigger role in the formation and growth of the church in the long run even if he understood himself to be submitting to the will of Jesus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=21)