# The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080 "2010-04-14T16:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/441 "2010-05-30T16:24:27Z")
Inventors. Edward Jenner Leaders. Lenin Philosophy. Karl Marx Religion. Mohammed Science. Charles Darwin Lenin, Marx, and Mohammed are remaining. Darwin was extremely influential, but Evolution was an idea who’s time had come and it was in the air. Edward Jenner is the second-most influential medical man we have on the Science list, so it was time for him to go. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/442 "2010-05-30T16:52:35Z")
Inventors. Edward Jenner Leaders. Napoleon Bonaparte Philosophy. William Shakespeare Religion. St Paul Science. Euclid > [@JohnT](#): > > Darwin was extremely influential, but Evolution was an idea who’s time had come and it was in the air. Yes. Note that [Patrick Matthew](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Matthew) had published the essential theory 27 years before Darwin or Wallace. (And, as shown in Loren Eiseley’s _Darwin’s Century_, Matthew realized evolution could lead to enormous change, an insight obscured in his Wikipedia article.) But Darwin was extremely important. He vastly exceeded Matthew (or Wallace) with his brilliant and thoroughly argued writings. (Matthew’s book was named _On Naval Timber and Arboriculture_ !) So for this round, it’s time to get rid of Euclid. There were mathematicians from that era more brilliant than Euclid, and Euclid did not invent the axiomatic method. Yes, his writings were very influential … but so was _Origin of Species_. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/443 "2010-05-30T16:58:29Z")
Inventors. Edward Jenner Leaders. Napoleon Bonaparte Philosophy. Plato Religion. St. Paul Science. Euclid ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/444 "2010-05-30T17:23:24Z")
Inventors. Edward Jenner Leaders. Napolean Philosophy. Shakespeare Religion. Mohammed Science. Charles Darwin Christianity is the major religion of the U.S. who is the current world power, and Great Britain, the former world power. It is far more influential than Islam.St. Paul is its most influential member so Mohammed should get the boot. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/445 "2010-05-30T17:28:43Z")
Also, from 600 million to 1 billion more Christians alive today (depending on who’s keeping score), a numerical advantage that has lasted for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/446 "2010-05-30T20:55:00Z")
Inventions. Johann Gutenberg Leader. George Washington Philosophy. Karl Marx Religion. Mohammed Science. Michael Faraday ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/447 "2010-05-30T21:25:12Z")
Inventors. Edward Jenner Leaders. Genghis Khan Philosophy. Plato Religion. St Paul Science. Euclid I agree Christianity is and has been a lot more influental than Islam, but I’d argue that Mohammed was more important to Islam than Paul for Christianity. Without Paul Christianity would likely be less succesful today. I don’t think it was inevitable for it to become a world religion, and Paul was certainly influental in that. Without Mohammed Islam probably wouldn’t exist today. Additionally Paul mostly influenced the church itself. Mohammed was also a political leader and general, who set the stage for centuries of warfare and conquests in that part of the world. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/448 "2010-05-30T22:11:28Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > I agree Christianity is and has been a lot more influental than Islam, but I’d argue that Mohammed was more important to Islam than Paul for Christianity. Without Paul Christianity would likely be less succesful today. I don’t think it was inevitable for it to become a world religion, and Paul was certainly influental in that. > > Without Mohammed Islam probably wouldn’t exist today. Additionally Paul mostly influenced the church itself. Mohammed was also a political leader and general, who set the stage for centuries of warfare and conquests in that part of the world. True, but this thread isn’t “debating” (or whatever) who was the most influential in their chosen field, but who had the most influence over the entirety of humanity. Given this, St. Paul (and Jesus) have had far more influence over far larger numbers of people than Mohammed. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/449 "2010-05-30T22:34:05Z")
Inventions. Edward Jenner Leaders. Lenin Philosophers. William Shakespeare Religion. St. Paul Science. Michael Faraday Again, no easy choices here. I went with Jenner only because the principles of inoculation were already well known in the Middle East before Jenner. Jenner simply found a way to make inoculation much safer and more effective. And since communism didn’t take, long term, in Russia, Lenin should go. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/450 "2010-05-30T22:47:34Z")
Inventor. James Watt Leader. V.I. Lenin Philosophy. Plato Religion. Paul Science. Charles Darwin ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/451 "2010-05-31T01:41:54Z")
Invention. Edward Jenner Leader. Julius Caesar Philosophy. Confucius Religion. St Paul Science. Michael Faraday Three new faces: Jenner because I can’t decided on the other guys; St Paul because currently the most dynamic religious movement happens to be Islam; Faraday because he’s now totally outclassed by the others. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/452 "2010-05-31T01:57:54Z")
> [@XanderCrews](#): > > Christianity is the major religion of the U.S. who is the current world power, and Great Britain, the former world power. It is far more influential than Islam. Considering what the US is doing lately, the days of the US remaining a world power are rapidly dwindling. Considering the various scandals with the Catholic church and other problems within the faiths you are looking upon a faith that is in decline. Islam, on the other hand, is winning over converts. Yeah, a good deal of that happens to be anti-American as well, but those are the stakes when you decide to wage a holy war. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/453 "2010-05-31T02:21:08Z")
Inventor. Edward Jenner Leader. Napoleon Bonaparte Philosophy. Confucius Religion. St. Paul Science. Michael Faraday Confucius and Paul are the only holdovers. Jenner was the easiest of the newbies to nominate. Napoleon was basically a coin flip, with Faraday even more admittedly questionable a pick. ---
**Author:** ![sohvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sohvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sohvan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/454 "2010-05-31T09:02:06Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > True, but this thread isn’t “debating” (or whatever) who was the most influential in their chosen field, but who had the most influence over the entirety of humanity. Given this, St. Paul (and Jesus) have had far more influence over far larger numbers of people than Mohammed. I never said I was looking at them just in their chosen fields. I wouldn’t agree that Jesus and Paul have had more influence over the whole of humanity than Mohammed. Christianity may have had more influence than Islam overall, but Jesus and Paul have had a much smaller impact on Christianity, and thus they get less of the credit as well. Just because you’re the founder of a religion, or the last adherent left, doesn’t mean you should automatically get credit for everything that religion has done. It is after all about comparing the impact of people, not the impact of religions. Jesus himself had somewhat little to do with the success of his religion. You could imagine some other messianic religion taking christianity’s place if history had turned out differently. On the other hand Mohammed made sure of his religion’s success by uniting the arabic tribes and killing people who disagreed. For a clumsy metaphor how about this: Jesus is the person who lights a match and discards it. Paul is the person who carried that lit fire to other places, making it a bigger spreading fire. Later on other people fan the flames and keep spreading it. Mohammed not only lit a match, and threw gasoline on it, but also spread that fire to burn down the whole city block, and made sure it’d be carried to other cities. Just because Christianity’s eventual fire is bigger, doesn’t mean Paul is responsible for burning down more things. The credit for Christianity’s success lies with a lot more people, some of who’s names we do not know. Mohammed was more a one man show until he died. He also had a lot more direct political impact than either Jesus or Paul. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/455 "2010-05-31T20:06:52Z")
Last day for round 16!! ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/456 "2010-05-31T20:18:56Z")
Invention. James Watt Leaders. Genghis Khan Philosophy. Karl Marx Religion. Mohammed Science. Michael Faraday ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/457 "2010-06-01T02:29:50Z")
Inventor: Edward Jenner (Vaccination would still have been reached by accident) Politics: Augustus (The Republic was decaying and some sort of an Empire was inevitable) Philosophy: William Shakespeare (Works of literature are less influential than philosophical or political thought) Religion: Mohammed (Christianity’s more influential than Islam) Science: Charles Darwin (The Theory of Evolution had already been reached by Wallace at the same time) Reply to Uncle Goat: Islam is not growing in influence as much as claimed, in large areas of Africa for instance Islam is being challenged by Christian missionaries. Plus even if the US declines in world prestage, the Western Civilization’s democratic-capitalist ideal is still increasing everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Uncle\_Goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Goat)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/458 "2010-06-01T02:46:04Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Reply to Uncle Goat: Islam is not growing in influence as much as claimed, in large areas of Africa for instance Islam is being challenged by Christian missionaries. Plus even if the US declines in world prestage, the Western Civilization’s democratic-capitalist ideal is still increasing everywhere. And those Christian missionaries are Mormons. It’s okay to look closely. And sure wish the US would see more democratic ideals. Capitalism is anti-democratic. We have that in spades, unless there’s a huge loss, then socialism kicks in to pay off the screw up. I sure wish I could get 25 million in debt, but that’s only for the rich people. I sure wish I could talk directly to my Senator, but I can’t afford the luncheon fee. Yeah, the best democracy money can buy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/459 "2010-06-01T09:09:10Z")
Inventors. James Watt Leaders. Augustus Caesar Philosophy. Confucius Religion. Mohammed Science. Louis Pasteur ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/460 "2010-06-01T13:47:33Z")
Round 16 is over and we have our first category winner… **Category, Name, # of Votes** I, Edward Jenner , 9 L, Napoleon Bonaparte, 4 P, William Shakespeare, 4 R, St Paul, 7 S, Michael Faraday, 5 Mohammed has won the religion category… I’ll send him an email later, let him know what he won. 😉 Also, our last artist has been booted off - cya, Shakespeare! Remaining Names: **Inventors** James Watt, British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine Johann Gutenberg, Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press Thomas Edison, American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions Ts’ai Lun, Scientist, Inventor of Paper **Leaders** Augustus Caesar, Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire Genghis Khan, Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire George Washington, American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States Julius Caesar, Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars Lenin, Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia Sui Wen Ti, Chinese Emperor, Reunited China **Philosophy** Aristotle, Greek Philosopher Confucius, Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism Karl Marx, Economist, Founder of Communism Plato, Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism **Science** Albert Einstein, Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity Charles Darwin, British Scientist, Theory of Evolution Euclid, Greek Mathematician Isaac Newton, British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion Louis Pasteur, Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=24)