# The 100 Most Influential People - Try the Third **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080 "2010-04-14T16:58:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/41 "2010-04-15T13:18:26Z")
Invention. Christopher Columbus Leader. John F Kennedy Philosophy. Mencius Religion. Constantine the Great. Science. Sigmund Freud ---
**Author:** ![Panurge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@Panurge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Panurge)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/42 "2010-04-15T13:44:06Z")
Invention. Ts’ai Lun Leader. John F Kennedy Philosophy. Mencius Religion. Mani Science. Antonine Laurent Lavoisier ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/43 "2010-04-15T14:39:10Z")
Invention. Ts’ai Lun Leaders. John F. Kennedy Philosophy and Arts. Homer Religion. Moses Science. Sigmund Freud Notes: Ts’ai Lun, Homer and Moses chosen for being (probably) fictional ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/44 "2010-04-15T14:53:25Z")
Invention. Gregory Pincus Leader. Simon Bolivar Philosophy. Thomas Malthus Religion. Mani Science. Antonine Laurent Lavoisier ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/45 "2010-04-15T19:04:23Z")
10 more hours 'til the end of round 1! ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/46 "2010-04-15T19:27:04Z")
invention. Orville and Wilbur Wright Leaders. Menes Philosophy. Mencius Religion. Zoraster Science. Enrico Fermi ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/47 "2010-04-15T20:25:49Z")
Invention. Ts’ai Lun Leader. Simon Bolivar Philosophy. Voltaire Religion. John Calvin Science. William Harvey ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/48 "2010-04-15T21:11:22Z")
Invention. Gregory Pincus Leader. John F Kennedy Philosophy. Thomas Malthus Religion. Mani Science. Sigmund Freud I normally don’t participate in these, but this one seems pretty interesting. I think the invention credited to Pincus is just too recent and I think it gets more impact for influence than it deserves. Kennedy, I think, is an obvious one and simply doesn’t belong on this list at all IMO. Manichaeism I think is just less influential than most of the other religions; Calvin is close though. And I think Freud was pretty much a quack, and while he may have been influential at one point, I’m not sure how influential he is now. For those voting for “imaginary people”, I would strongly urge you to reconsider. Some of them very well may be fictional, but the things attributed to them were done by someone, or probably a small group of people, and that influence is still real. Hell, people we KNOW are fictional have some pretty massive influence (Santa Claus being a notable example and one could probably pick any number of comic, movie, or literary characters too). Similarly, I’ve seen it claimed that the works of Shakespeare may have been written by one or many other authors (I don’t know whether it’s an accurate claim or not, and it’s not really relevant, bare with me), and yet, whether he actually wrote them himself or not doesn’t matter. Our image of him may not be historically accurate, but that image is what has influence, and thus, I think that historical accuracy doesn’t matter. Ts’ai Lun, since someone mentioned him, he may be fictional (I don’t know enough about him to say with any level of certain), but SOMEONE invented paper, and that invention alone is extremely influential. Homer is almost certainly a number of various authors, but that collective is given this single image and, along with whoever wrote it all down, that image is extremely influential. Same goes with Moses; he may have been multiple people, I dunno, but considering that vast majority of Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe it to be one person, and those three religions being MASSIVELY influential, even if he isn’t real, that person is still influential. Especially in the religious area, if this trend continues, I can see the same argument made by some people for probably a third of that list, and several others in other lists, and I’d hate it to come down to an argument of existence or not since, quite frankly, I don’t think it’s particularly relevant to the level of influence. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/49 "2010-04-15T21:56:44Z")
Invention.Alexander Graham Bell Leader.Mikhail Gorbachev Arts.Ludwig von Beethoven Religion.Mani Science.Sigmund Freud There are no unworthy choices on the Inventors list, but Bell had so many talented rivals who were so close to inventing telephone technology that, had he died young or given up his efforts, I’m pretty sure phone technology would be no worse today. On the leaders list, Gorbachev is just a bit more overrated than JFK. The Soviet Union collapsed around him. He was a witness to events more than a shaper of them. And if Putin gets his way, everything that happened under Gorbachev and Yeltsin will soon be undone, anyway. I love much of Beethoven’s music, but can’t think of ANY composer who’s really changed or shaped the world via his art Mani’s heresy just wasn’t long-lived or important enough. Obviously, Freud infuenced the world far more than many of the other people on the science list, but I’m judging him as a scientist. And he contributed nothing worthwhile to our understanding of the brain or human behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/50 "2010-04-16T00:03:43Z")
Inventions. Orville and Wilbur Wright Leader. John F Kennedy Philosophy and Arts. Rene Descrates Religion. Mahavira Science. Werner Heisenberg My explanations: Orville and Wilbur Wright - Lots of people were developing aircraft at the same time. They just happened to do it that week. John F Kennedy - Minor American President. Launching the Apollo program was probably something any President would have done after Sputnik. And it’s increasingly appearing the Apollo program was a dead end. Rene Descrates - Philosophy is a pretty esoteric influence. Mahavira - Jainism has never been a major religion. Werner Heisenberg - Quantum physics has not really had any major real world influence. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/51 "2010-04-16T00:30:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And it’s increasingly appearing the Apollo program was a dead end. Sadly, albeit unnecessarily, true. And I agree that even given the unrecognized potential of using the Moon, Nixon would have also joined with the USSR in the “first to the moon” race, and - arguably - would have been interested in actually planting a permanent station on it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/52 "2010-04-16T00:52:01Z")
Four more hours. 2 categories are tied… ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/53 "2010-04-16T00:59:30Z")
Is there a rule for tiebreakers? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/54 "2010-04-16T01:48:43Z")
Quote the OP: > [@](#): > > Ties will be broken by the original Hart ranking. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/55 "2010-04-16T02:21:30Z")
Invention. Francisco Pizarro Leader. Josef Stalin Philosophy. Jean-Jacques Rosseau Religion. Pope Urban II Science. Nicolas Copernicus I wish Invention and Exploration were separate categories. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/56 "2010-04-16T03:01:32Z")
The goal was to get five roughly-equal categories. In the original breakdown I had an “exploration” category, which only yielded 4 names (Columbus, De Gama, Pizarro, and Cortes). Invention had 14 names, so to I combined the two categories and then took 2 original scientists (a category originally with 23 entries) and re-assigned them as inventors. Same thing with Philosophy and the Arts. Philosophy originally had 14, arts had 5, so those categories were combined, and I re-categorized one leader (Jefferson) as a Philosopher (and I did this more to make the Leader category smaller, really) to end up with 20. Leaders originally had 27 people - I reassigned 4 to Religion and 1 to Philosophy to end up with 22. I also thought the Explorers were poorly represented. King Henry the Navigator needs to be on the list before De Gama, there was no Magellen(!), the list was very western-European 1350-1450 centric, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/57 "2010-04-16T05:06:13Z")
Here are the people voted off of Island Influential: Category, Name, Description, Original Hart Ranking Invention and Exploration, Gregory Pincus, Invented Birth Control Pill, 82 Leader, John F Kennedy, American President, Originated Manned Mission to Moon, 81 Religion, Mahavira, Founder of Jainism, 100 Philosophy and Arts, Mencius, Chinese Philosopher, Expanded Confucianism, 92 Science, Sigmund Freud, Psychologist, Developed Freudian Psychology, 69 JFK was the big vote-getter with 12 votes cast for him. Three tie-breakers: Pincus lost to Pizarro (7 votes each), as did Mencius (7 votes, tied with Malthus), and Mahavira (8 votes tied Mani). Second round starts Saturday! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/58 "2010-04-16T05:09:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … I re-categorized one leader (Jefferson) as a Philosopher … In his book, it _is_ Jefferson’s importance as a philosopher that Hart emphasizes, mentioning that someone called him the “preeminent spokesman for human liberty.” Is there an on-line version of Hart’s book with more than just the raw list? Hart’s analysis is _much better_ than some seem to be assuming. I’d hoped to use his reasoning as a _starting point_ and, frankly, have been disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/59 "2010-04-16T11:36:02Z")
**Inventions and Exploration (20 people)** 1, Alexander Fleming - Scientist, Invented Penicillin 2, Alexander Graham Bell - Scientist, Invented Telephone 3, Antony van Leeuwenhoek - Scientist, Inventor of Microscope 4, Christopher Columbus - Explorer, Discoverer of America 5, Edward Jenner - Scientist, Developed Vaccination for Smallpox 6, Francisco Pizarro - Spanish Adventurer, Conquered Inca Empire 8, Gugilemo Marconi - Scientist, Invented Radio 9, Henry Ford - American Industrialist, Developed Mass Production Techniques 10, Hernando Cortes - Spanish Adventurer, Conquered Aztec Empire 11, James Watt - British Scientist, Invented Steam Engine 12, Johann Gutenberg - Scientist, Inventor of Printing Press 13, Joseph Lister - Scientist, Developed Antiseptic Methods 14, Louis Dagurre - Scientist, Invented Photography 15, Nikolaus August Otto - Scientist, Developed Internal Combustion Engine 16, Orville and Wilbur Wright - Scientists, Inventor of Airplane 17, Thomas Edison - American Scientist, 1,000+ inventions 18, Ts’ai Lun - Scientist, Inventor of Paper 19, Vasco de Gama - Explorer, Discovered Cape of Good Hope 20, William TG Morton - Scientist, Invented Anaesthesia **Leader** 1, Adolf Hitler - German Dictator, Started World War II 2, Alexander the Great - Macedonian Ruler, Formed Macedonian Empire 3, Augustus Caesar - Roman Princep, Founded Roman Empire 4, Charlemagne - Frankish Monarch, Founder of Holy Roman Empire 5, Cyrus the Great - Persian Emperor, Founded Persian Emperor 6, Genghis Khan - Mongol Ruler, Founded Mongol Empire 7, George Washington - American Statesman and General, Fought For Independence of United States 9, Josef Stalin - Dictator of USSR, Expanded Communism 10, Julius Caesar - Roman General, Ended Roman Civil Wars 11, Lenin - Russian Leader, Founded Communism in Russia 12, Mao Zedong - Chinese Dictator, Established Communism in China 13, Menes - Egyptian Pharaoh, United Egypt 14, Mikhail Gorbachev - Soviet Leader, Liberalized and Helped Break Up USSR 15, Napoleon Bonaparte - French Emperor, Waged Napoleonic Wars 16, Peter the Great - Russian Emperor, Modernized Russia 17, Queen Elizabeth I - Queen of England, Made England a Naval Power 18, Queen Isabella I - Queen of Spain, Sponsored Columbus’ Expeditions 19, Shi Huang Di - Chinese Emperor, United China 20, Simon Bolivar - Latin American General and Statesman, Waged Wars of Independence 21, Sui Wen Ti - Chinese Emperor, Reunited China 22, William the Conquerer - Norman Duke and English King, Led In Norman Conquest of England **Philosophy and Arts** 1, Adam Smith - Economist, Advocated Capitalism 2, Aristotle - Greek Philosopher 3, Confucius - Chinese Philosopher, Founder of Confucianism 4, Francis Bacon - Philosopher, Developed Scientific Method 5, Homer - Greek Poet, Writer of Epics 6, Jean-Jacques Rosseau - French Philosopher and Writer 7, Johann Sebastian Bach – Composer 8, John Locke - British Philosopher, Developed Democratic Ideas 9, Karl Marx - Economist, Founder of Communism 10, Lao Tzu - Chinese Philosopher, Founded Taoism 11, Ludwig von Beethoven – Composer 13, Michelangelo - Artist, Sculptor 14, Nicoli Machiavelli - Political Theorist 15, Plato - Greek Philosopher, Developed Platonism 16, Rene Descrates - French Philosopher 17, Thomas Jefferson - American Statesman, Wrote Declaration of Independence, Louisiana Purchase 18, Thomas Malthus - Economist, Developed Malthusian Theory 19, Voltaire - French Philosopher 20, William Shakespeare - English Playwright **Religion** 1, ‘Umar ibn al-Khattab - Muslim Caliph, Expanded the Caliphate 2, Asoka - Indian Emperor, Spread Buddhism 3, Buddha - Founder of Buddhism 4, Constantine the Great - Roman Emperor, Tolerated and Promoted Christianity in Rome 5, Jesus Christ - Founder of Christianity 6, John Calvin - Christian Theologian, Developed Calvinism 7, Justinian I - Byzantine Emperor, Recovered Much of Roman Empire 9, Mani - Founder of Manichaeism 10, Martin Luther - Theologian, Started Protestantism and Reformation 11, Mohammed - Founder of Islam 12, Moses - Jewish Prophet 13, Oliver Cromwell - British Ruler 14, Pope Urban II - Pope of Roman Catholic Church, Called For Crusades 15, St Augustine - Christian Theologian 16, St Paul - Christian Missionary and Apostle 17, Zoraster - Founder of Zorasterianism **Science** 1, Albert Einstein - Scientist, Physicist, Theory of Relativity 2, Antonine Laurent Lavoisier - French Scientist, Advanced Chemistry 3, Charles Darwin - British Scientist, Theory of Evolution 4, Enrico Fermi - Scientist, Developed Atomic Bomb 5, Ernest Rutherford - Scientist, Developed Subatomic Physics 6, Euclid - Greek Mathematician 7, Galileo Galilei - Scientist, Advocated Heliocentricity 8, Gregor Mendel - Priest and Scientist, Advanced Genetics 9, Isaac Newton - British Scientist, Theory of Universal Gravitation and Motion 10, James Clerk Marxwell - Scientist, Electromagnetism 11, Johannes Kepler - Scientist, Developed Theories of Planetary Motion 12, John Dalton - Scientist, Atomic Theory 13, Leonhard Euler – Mathematician 14, Louis Pasteur - Scientist, Pasteurization, Germ Theory of Disease 15, Max Planck - Scientist, Developed Therodynamics 16, Michael Faraday - British Scientist, Discovered Electromagnetism 17, Nicolas Copernicus - Scientist, Theory of Heliocentricity 19, Werner Heisenberg - Scientist, Developed Quantum Physics 20, William Conrad Roentgen - Scientist, Discovered X-Rays, principles of radioactivity 21, William Harvey - Scientist, Developed Theories of Blood Circulation ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080/60 "2010-04-16T11:37:27Z")
Btw, slight rule change: Y’all can start voting for the next round when I post the results and remaining people from the final round. End dates still remain the same, however. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-100-most-influential-people-try-the-third/536080.md?page=4)