The 1001st nuclear strategy thread

SenorBeef nailed it.

In the event Russia triggers a conflict with NATO, whether inadvertently or deliberately, events will become hostage to the ebb and flow of the war on the ground. Once that war is going badly enough for either side, the temptation to tip the scales with a nuke or two will become all but irresistible.

The Russians were always more prone to this than was NATO, even back in the middle Cold War years when NATO’s public position was that it needed nukes to offset the Soviet’s / Warsaw Pact’s clear numerical superiority, presumed element of surprise/ tactical initiative, and presumed qualitative near parity.

The Soviets then and Russians now have never considered nuclear war “unthinkable”. That word simply isn’t in their doctrinal lexicon. Nukes are just another weapon on the spectrum of weapons from smaller to larger. Nuclear wars, especially but not exclusively limited nuclear wars, are fully fightable and fully winnable, period amen. So says their doctrine today and has for decades.

Clear thinkers on both sides should appreciate the difference between how they themselves perceive nukes and how their opposition does. This thinking applies to all aspects of politics, strategy, doctrine, and tactics, but becomes especially acute at the high end of the destructive curve. Truly understanding your enemy is essential to correctly predicting their next moves. Failing to understand your enemy, assuming they’re a mirror of yourself, or assuming they’ll react like an NPC goon so you can blast them more easily, is a direct route to your own defeat.

As such, smart Russian leaders understand that NATO sees a strong firebreak at nuclear first use, and will probably react disproportionately to Russia crossing that break. Conversely, smart NATO leaders should expect the Russians not to think in terms of a firebreak at all. Once a nuclear-armed Russian unit starts losing severely it will naturally use nuclear fires to preserve itself.

Whether leaders on either side will be blinded by their own side’s self-interested narratives is always an open question. E.g. The Japanese high command in 1940 firmly believed that the US was so in love with big cars and easy living that they’d cede the Pacific to Japan if sharply pushed. Seems ludicrous to us now, but within their inner circle that was in fact the group-think consensus.

What do you think is the group-think consensus in Putin’s inner circle today about the robustness of NATO & more specifically US resolve in the face of a stiff punch in the nose? Under Obama, under Clinton, or under Trump? What of May, Hollande, and Merkel?
Finally, a war always ends in one of two ways: a stalemate/negotiated settlement at something near the pre-war borders with both belligerent governments surviving (See Korea in the 1950s and Gulf War I) or as the comprehensive replacement of one belligerent’s regime (See Nazi Germany in 1945 or Gulf War II).

No country that has nuclear weapons will submit to Option 2 without using at least some of them. Anyone fighting a currently-conventional war against a nuclear power knows this. Which means in a very real sense that no nuclear power can be defeated without the victor being willing to absorb some nuclear strikes. At most the losing side can be frustrated in its goal of territorial growth. But it will live on to regroup and perhaps fight another day.

And this logic is precisely what drove the regimes in Pakistan and North Korea to obtain nukes, and has been (still is?) driving Iran in the same direction.

Late insert after the above:

The astute observer will immediately see that this is a *very *unstable equilibrium that will fail spectacularly under the slightest pressure.

Russian lies didn’t fool anybody who wasn’t already a fool. There was no real question about what happened in Ukraine (or Georgia). All those guys running around with guns and unmarked uniforms were obviously Russian soldiers.

The reason no third country intervened in these wars wasn’t because of any uncertainty over Russian involvement. It was because other countries didn’t see that they had a high enough interest in intervening.

If Russia tried the same shenanigans in a NATO country, we’d have a stake in the outcome and we’d send troops in. If Russia tried to obfuscate the situation by claiming that “volunteer militia” were suppressing an uprising or restoring a rightful regime or defending a breakaway country, we’d tell them “Sure, whatever you say. Just let us know if you want to claim the bodies.”

It seems to me that MAD can be carefully, skillfully circumvented if one side uses only a very limited nuclear attack - enough to determine the outcome of a war - but limited enough so that the vast majority of the enemy’s populace, infrastructure, etc. remains intact - and threaten an all-out MAD exchange if there is retaliation.

Kind of like as if an assailant, armed with a gun, kicks you in the shin and then threatens to shoot you if you retaliate. You have no choice but to accept the kicking.

So imagine, for instance, if Russia were to hit Spokane or Tulsa with a nuclear weapon - which would be a small city - and would be equivalent to a hundred 9/11 attacks - but still left 99.9% of the United States unharmed. Then Russia could say, *“You have no choice but to acquiesce and meekly accept the destruction of your small city, because if you retaliate, then we will launch all our nukes and you’ll lose the remaining intact 99.9% of your country.” *Sure, Russia would be wiped off the map but faced with losing 0.1% of his country, and losing 100% of his country, what American president would opt for the 100% loss?

That was certainly part of the brinksmanship in the classic Cold War era.

As General Turgidson said: “… two regrettable but nevertheless distinguishable post-war environments. One in which we’ve got 20 million dead, and another in which we’ve got 160 million dead. Depending on the breaks.”

This was always the sense in which MAD was assumed to fail; who really would counterattack all-out despite understanding the consequences for their own country?

Logically speaking, either side in the OP’s scenario could make this play. Both leaderships care about the post-war environment in their country even if they themselves may not survive into it.

Where this symmetry falls apart is when dealing with uber-totalitarians like NK and with religious Millenialists / Messianics like Iran. Those types of leaderships have additional decision factors we have a very hard time modeling accurately.

I find it very easy to imagine Kim happily choosing to bring utter genocidal destruction onto 99+% of his slave populace once he’s certain he himself is doomed. The pharaohs supposedly slaughtered a bunch of slaves to provide a newly deceased pharaoh a fresh set of servants in the afterlife. Kim’s arguably not much different.

Khamenei’s motivations are different. But they (probably) equally hinge on factors we don’t typically consider.

In my opinion, the reaction of the West probably would have been different if Russia had announced that they were invading Ukraine and sent the army in, as opposed to Russian soldiers just showing up in Ukraine.

But what would be the point of blowing up Spokane or Tulsa? It wouldn’t serve any Russian interest to destroy one city and leave the rest of America intact to retaliate. A terrorist might do it for the sake of killing people but countries generally only kill that many people when they see a benefit in it for themselves.

And why would the Russians expect us to believe their threat of full retaliation while at the same time refusing to believe that we would carry out the same retaliation? Are Americans meeker than Russians? Are Russians crazier than Americans? What happens if we surprise them and attack a Russian city of equivalent size? Do the Russians follow through and launch a general attack in vengeance for one city? On the other hand, what if they misread the situation the other way and we launch a general attack in vengeance for the one city they destroyed?

I feel the Russian government did adopt a “one step at a time” policy and waited between steps to see what western reaction would be. Putin didn’t send Russian troops in until he was pretty certain he could get away with it.

Note that I’m not disagreeing with the decision the United States and other western countries made. The Russian invasion of Ukraine was wrong but we don’t have an obligation to oppose every wrong in the world. And we had no specific obligation to Ukraine other than our agreement that we wouldn’t invade.

To my understanding, the term for this was “de-escalation” and it was standard US doctrine up until 1983. That’s why the US pledged did NOT pledge no first use. Then Reagan had an epiphany when he found out how close he came to accidentally kicking off WWIII in the Able Archer exercise.

As a result the US swore off de-escalation forever. To me, the logical consequence of that decision is that Russia has, or will become, a nuclear de-escalation enthusiast. Or I may be paraphrasing something I read lately.

Ah, here is the article I may have plagiarized.