# the 13 families **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 28, 2005, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939 "2005-08-28T03:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![quicksilver6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/71c47a/32.png) [@quicksilver6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quicksilver6)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/41 "2005-08-28T21:53:40Z")
Astro, thank you for putting it like that. I can honestly respect your opinion. Like I said I don’t believe that there are secret organizations ruling the world but I can’t refute it either. There are alot of people who take half facts and blow them out of proportion to suit what they believe to be true in their own minds. But when stuff like George Bush Jr. gets re-elected it really makes me wonder if a small organized group of people couldn’t become powerful and have a secret agenda. Sometimes the left hand of an organization ie. the US Gov’t doesn’t have a clue what the right hand is doing. So in the end I guess it comes down to personal opinion as the facts are often lost in a pile of misinformation. re. my George Bush comment…I mean come on people actually trust this guy to run the US I wouldn’t trust him to teach coloring to a kindergarten class. [http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp](http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/42 "2005-08-28T22:25:25Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > Astro, thank you for putting it like that. I can honestly respect your opinion. Like I said I don’t believe that there are secret organizations ruling the world but I can’t refute it either. There are alot of people who take half facts and blow them out of proportion to suit what they believe to be true in their own minds. But when stuff like George Bush Jr. gets re-elected it really makes me wonder if a small organized group of people couldn’t become powerful and have a secret agenda. Sometimes the left hand of an organization ie. the US Gov’t doesn’t have a clue what the right hand is doing. So in the end I guess it comes down to personal opinion as the facts are often lost in a pile of misinformation. re. my George Bush comment…I mean come on people actually trust this guy to run the US I wouldn’t trust him to teach coloring to a kindergarten class. [http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp](http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp) Well, regrettable as you think GWB’s election is/was, what is there in any way, shape or form about the long and fairly well detailed and documented process of his ascension to the Presidency that requires a conspiracy other than a conspiracy of dunces? Most of the power plays he has engaged in over the course of his career have been up front and center. Depending on your perspective his career may be inspirational, infuriating or disappointing, but it’s hardly a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/43 "2005-08-28T22:54:07Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > But when stuff like George Bush Jr. gets re-elected it really makes me wonder if a small organized group of people couldn’t become powerful and have a secret agenda. Yeah, they’re called Republicans. 😉 “I don’t belong to any organized political party - I’m a Democrat.”’ - Will Rogers. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/44 "2005-08-29T01:16:06Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > But when stuff like George Bush Jr. gets re-elected it really makes me wonder if a small organized group of people couldn’t become powerful and have a secret agenda. Sometimes the left hand of an organization ie. the US Gov’t doesn’t have a clue what the right hand is doing. So in the end I guess it comes down to personal opinion as the facts are often lost in a pile of misinformation. re. my George Bush comment…I mean come on people actually trust this guy to run the US I wouldn’t trust him to teach coloring to a kindergarten class. [http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp](http://www.depresident.com/bush-fool-me-once-video.asp) We try to keep political potshots OUT of General Questions. That’s why we have other fora. And, if you want to boil everything down to “it comes down to personal opinion as the facts are often lost in a pile of misinformation” then you need to take an opinion to IMHO. General Questions tries to NOT lose the facts in the pile. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/45 "2005-08-29T01:36:44Z")
If the OP finds it so shocking (and suggestive of darker forces at play) that GWB could be re-elected, he should try talking to his friends, neighbors and parents. He might find that some of them (gasp!) actually voted to re-elect. Of course, this might just indicate the minions of the 13 families are _everywhere_. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/46 "2005-08-30T00:13:06Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > If the entire government is controlled by a secret conspiracy, would they choose to kill President Kennedy by shooting him in the middle of a public motorcade? Yes, if they wanted to create a martyr. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > If the Communists have thousands of agents controlling every level of the American government, would they use them to secretly rule the United States? No, they had that much control, they’d come out in the open and declare us a People’s Republic. I suppose you’ve never heard of the [Fabian Society](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society). > [@Little Nemo](#): > > If thirteen families secretly rule the world, would they pretend to be ordinary millionaires? No, they’d come out and take over like the Hapsburgs, the Bourbons, or the Romanovs did. And what happened to the Hapsburgs, the Bourbons, and the Romanovs? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/47 "2005-08-30T00:34:00Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The Freemasons are not ruling the world [They can’t even keep their membership from declining](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons#Contemporary_challenges) in the US. You’d think, if they really did rule the world, that people would be clamoring to get in. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/48 "2005-08-30T02:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, if they wanted to create a martyr. Cryptic, yes. Intelligible, no. > [@](#): > > I suppose you’ve never heard of the Fabian Society. Yes, but how a British socialist group belongs in a conversation about Communists and the United States eludes me. > [@](#): > > And what happened to the Hapsburgs, the Bourbons, and the Romanovs? They all lost power. Which proves, I guess, that they didn’t rule the world after all. If the 13 families really rule the world, they have no reason to hide. And if they don’t rule the world, then they don’t rule the world. ---
**Author:** ![quicksilver6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/71c47a/32.png) [@quicksilver6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quicksilver6)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/49 "2005-08-30T05:05:27Z")
Ok so maybe the actual idea of 13 specific familes then may seem a little absurd depending on ones own opinion. But can we all not agree that people in certain social circles tend to help eachother out? And can we not agree that the rich and powerful have definitive social circles that transcend race, and culture. Take the long term friendship of the Bush and Saudi families. Now those two families have a tremendous amount of money and political influence. Can anyone provide any examples of how that relationship has perhaps used their influence to say gain them more money and power. I’m sure we could come up with a few. So whos to say that even more rich and powerful groups or social circles exist that may flex thier muscles to better benefit them. Although the conspiracy theory that there are 13 families that secretly rule the world I personally believe that when anyone no matter there own level of wealth or power does what him or her can to make things go thier way. And I’m sure that those dealings if they do exist have been so cleverly hidden that we will never know if they truly exist other than the ones that some how become mainstream news. I mean if people can cheat on their taxes and get away with it then I’m sure that larger corporations do aswell and who’s to say how much gets funneled and used to make certain events happen take KMPG for example what is it 2.5 billion in tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/50 "2005-08-30T13:27:20Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > I’ve done alot of reading and I have found this list of 13 families whom supposedly control the world and are bent on creating a one world gov’t has anyone else heard of this and how true is it? Don’t take your history from _So I Married an Axe Murderer_. When they had this dialogue in the film they were just being silly; they didn’t mean for anyone to take it as a fact: Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it’s a well known fact, Sunny Jim, that there’s a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentaveret, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows. Tony Giardino: So who’s in this Pentaveret? Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, _and_ Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with his wee beady eyes! And that smug look on his face, “Oh, you’re gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/51 "2005-08-30T14:14:40Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > Ok so maybe the actual idea of 13 specific familes then may seem a little absurd depending on ones own opinion. But can we all not agree that people in certain social circles tend to help eachother out? And can we not agree that the rich and powerful have definitive social circles that transcend race, and culture. Take the long term friendship of the Bush and Saudi families. Now those two families have a tremendous amount of money and political influence. Can anyone provide any examples of how that relationship has perhaps used their influence to say gain them more money and power. I’m sure we could come up with a few. So whos to say that even more rich and powerful groups or social circles exist that may flex thier muscles to better benefit them. Although the conspiracy theory that there are 13 families that secretly rule the world I personally believe that when anyone no matter there own level of wealth or power does what him or her can to make things go thier way. And I’m sure that those dealings if they do exist have been so cleverly hidden that we will never know if they truly exist other than the ones that some how become mainstream news. I mean if people can cheat on their taxes and get away with it then I’m sure that larger corporations do aswell and who’s to say how much gets funneled and used to make certain events happen take KMPG for example what is it 2.5 billion in tax evasion. It’s quite a stretch to go from “the long friendship of the Bush and Saudi families” to “those dealings if they do exist have been so cleverly hidden that we will never know if they truly exist.” For one thing, both the Bush and Saudi royal families have only had anything resembling influence for only about 80 years and “friendship” for a lot less time than that. For another, their “dealings” have been so cleverly hidden that George H.W. Bush must have allowed himself to be defeated and replaced by a no-account governor from a small state that grew up in near-poverty, only to set up an elaborate scenario 8 years later where Bush sone #1 could win the Presidency only because Bush son #2 manipulated himself to be elected governor of the one state that would determine the outcome of that election. That’s so much more satisfying than the U.S. and the Saudis trying to work out all their secret deals while GHW Bush was actually in office. The more someone tries to explain away inconvenient facts in a conspiracy theory the harder it gets to defend the theory. Think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/52 "2005-08-31T02:28:31Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > If thirteen families secretly rule the world, would they pretend to be ordinary millionaires? No, they’d come out and take over like the Hapsburgs, the Bourbons, or the Romanovs did. And what happened to the Hapsburgs, the Bourbons, and the Romanovs? > [@Little Nemo](#): > > They all lost power. Which proves, I guess, that they didn’t rule the world after all. If the 13 families really rule the world, they have no reason to hide. They have no reason to hide? :dubious: I mentioned the Fabian Society because it contradicts the logic you presented. If the Communists have thousands of agents controlling every level of the American government, _they would_ use them to secretly rule the United States. If they come out in the open and declare us a People’s Republic what would happen? There would be public outcry and strong opposition. So they would have to operate covertly and use gradual rather than revolutionary change. In other words, a Fabian method. The Fabian Society, instramental in the foundation of the British Labour Party, were influental in another arena. “It was at this time that many of the future leaders of the Third World were exposed to Fabian thought; most notably, India’s Jawaharlal Nehru, who subsequently framed economic policy for one-fifth of humanity on Fabian social-democratic lines.” [Cite](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Society) As you know, India has been connected with Britain but that is another story. This shows the influence one little group can have on the politics of its country and other countries. It might help to address what the conspiracy aims to achieve. Who came up with the ideas that influenced events in the world? For example, if you look at the [Fabian Society](http://www.fabian-society.org.uk/int.asp), you will see the “News”, '‘Disestablish Church and give Charles multi-faith Coronation’. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/53 "2005-08-31T07:39:20Z")
Doesn’t it strike anyone as astonishing that those secret societies (who don’t seem to be so secret at all, regarding all the stuff on the web explaining their composition, structure, and objectives to us) tolerate discussion about them going on? If they were really ruling the world, I guess it should be easy for them to stop any kind of internal information from getting outside. ---
**Author:** ![quicksilver6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/71c47a/32.png) [@quicksilver6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quicksilver6)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/54 "2005-09-01T04:14:27Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Doesn’t it strike anyone as astonishing that those secret societies (who don’t seem to be so secret at all, regarding all the stuff on the web explaining their composition, structure, and objectives to us) tolerate discussion about them going on? If they were really ruling the world, I guess it should be easy for them to stop any kind of internal information from getting outside. Ya but come on everyone knows that the Gov’t is an institution full of coruption and it’s just a bunch of rich people abusing the system to make themselves richer (ok there may be some good politicians but theres a different thread for that I’m sure) and besides if a secret society wanted to make sure they didnt’ get caught then they’d fill the world with conspiracy disinformation so that we’d sit here endlessly arguing about it while they filled their pockets. Just my opinion. Who knows it may even be true. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/55 "2005-09-01T11:37:15Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > Ya but come on everyone knows that the Gov’t is an institution full of coruption and it’s just a bunch of rich people abusing the system to make themselves richer (ok there may be some good politicians but theres a different thread for that I’m sure) and besides if a secret society wanted to make sure they didnt’ get caught then they’d fill the world with conspiracy disinformation so that we’d sit here endlessly arguing about it while they filled their pockets. Just my opinion. Who knows it may even be true. “Government” is an institution made up of people. True, some of them want to make themselves richer, some of them want to do the right thing and serve the populace, others want to ride out their time and retire, and some are complete nitwits. Stick around long enough and you’re also bound to hear words to the effect of “never ascribe to conspiracy and cunning what can more easily be explained by incompetence and stupidity.” Oh yeah; all guests receive a set of complimentary punctuation marks to help make their posts more readable. Here’s yours: … , ::::::::::: ;;;;;;;;;;;;; ??? !!! --------- ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/56 "2005-09-01T13:29:04Z")
> [@quicksilver6](#): > > Ya but come on everyone knows that the Gov’t is an institution full of coruption :rolleyes: Not everyone knows this as it’s not true. There may be some cases of corruption but that doesn’t mean that the entire federal government, all 50 state governments, and the plentitude of municipal governments are corrupt institutions. > [@](#): > > and it’s just a bunch of rich people abusing the system to make themselves richer Actually, it’s a bunch of people, some of whom are rich and some of whom aren’t, working to better the conditions of their constituency. > [@](#): > > (ok there may be some good politicians but theres a different thread for that I’m sure) I really think your definition of _some_ and the definition everyone else uses are different; I think those definitions are antonyms. > [@](#): > > and besides if a secret society wanted to make sure they didnt’ get caught then they’d fill the world with conspiracy disinformation so that we’d sit here endlessly arguing about it while they filled their pockets. Classic conspiracy theorist comment, that. > [@](#): > > Just my opinion. No comment. > [@](#): > > Who knows it may even be true. Incredibly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/57 "2005-09-01T13:30:25Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Oh yeah; all guests receive a set of complimentary punctuation marks to help make their posts more readable. Aren’t those issued in college? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/58 "2005-09-01T13:37:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Incredibly unlikely. By that, I mean that the conspiracy theory you’ve voiced is incredibly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Giant\_Spongess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@Giant\_Spongess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giant_Spongess)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/59 "2005-09-01T15:34:48Z")
Oh come on, we all know who runs the world: The Getties, the Rothschilds, the Queen, the Vatican, and the Colonel before he went tits-up… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939/60 "2005-09-01T15:51:10Z")
And if the Illuminati are flooding the internet with bogus conspiracy theories, all to blind us to the REAL consipiracy…then guys like you repeating conspiracy theories are almost certain to be wrong. Or is it that innocent? We know that the Illuminati spread bogus conspiracy theories. Therefore, most conspiracy theories (except one!) are misinformation spread by Illuminati operatives. You have come to this message board spreading conspiracy theories. Therefore, the most likely explanation is that you yourself are an Illuminati operative. I’d keep my torch and pitchfork close, people. We may have stumbled onto one of…THEM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13-families/318939.md?page=4)