# The 13th floor: Ooh, I'm sooo scared! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002 "2001-02-27T01:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/21 "2001-02-27T22:35:49Z")
Another data point: The turn-of-the-century Daniel Burnham-designed office building where I work has a 13th floor. Of course, it may have been built without one and then renumbered at a later renovation, perhaps when automatic elevators were installed. But Burnham doesn’t strike me as the superstitious type. 🙂 I don’t recall where I heard it, but I recall that the 13th floor superstition is for hotels and apartment buildings, not office buildings. In other words, where people sleep, not just work. I know I can’t think of an office building I’ve been in that skipped the 13th floor. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2001, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/22 "2001-02-27T23:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Bredin \* > \*\*I don’t recall where I heard it, but I recall that the 13th floor superstition is for hotels and apartment buildings, not office buildings. In other words, where people sleep, not just work. I know I can’t think of an office building I’ve been in that skipped the 13th floor. \*\* Um, the two office buildings I’ve worked in here in NYC were both missing the 13th floor, and they were built about 40 years apart - and apparently the Newark firm I worked for, which did have a 13th floor, only chose the space over the objections of some of the partners. I think it’s for all high-rises, residential or not. ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/23 "2001-03-03T00:22:45Z")
Hello, Dopers!!! Anyone out there? This could be one of the greatest conpsiracies of our time. Consider how widespread this phenomenon is. Consider how there’s nothing written about the practice. Consider that I’ve emailed at least 10 associate profs in architecture from around the USA asking for information and have yet to receive a single reply (and this is despite the fact that I included a naked photo of myself frolicking amongst buttercups with every request). So none of you can crack this, huh? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/24 "2001-03-03T00:40:12Z")
It’s not just floors, I live in apartment “14” because my landlords (and apparently the management company) won’t put a number 13 on anything. I’ve worked in buildings in California with no 13th floor labeled as such. I thought it was normal. ---
**Author:** ![aseymayo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@aseymayo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aseymayo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/25 "2001-03-03T00:54:19Z")
Well, I don’t think it’s so much an architecture question as a who-is-doing-the-numbering-and-ordering-the-elevators question. An architect doesn’t really care _what_ you call it, a 20 story building is still going to have 20 stories, even if the top one is called “21.” I had a look at the [Otis Elevator site](http://www.nao.otis.com/aboutotis/elevatorsinfo/0,1361,CLI1,00.html), figuring they might have an idea (since the development of high-rises and elevators went hand-in-hand), but I didn’t find anything. Maybe they’d respond to one of those buttercup emails from **choosybeggar**? ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/26 "2001-03-03T01:35:32Z")
Thanks **aseymayo** , the OTIS corp is a good suggestion. BTW, I wasn’t thinking in terms of architects making the call, but instead that they might know an awful lot about buildings (and that they have a well documented liking of buttercups). I’ll get back to y’all with updates when they come. Until then, please keep the suggestions coming. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/27 "2001-03-03T04:07:21Z")
This drives me crazy. Every building over 14 floors HAS a 13th floor. As noted you can call it 14 but it is still the 13th floor. And thus STILL unlucky. I worked in a hotel in Florida buildt in 1989. It has 13 floors only it went 1-12 and they labled the 13th floor the Penthouse floor. ---
**Author:** ![Powers106](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@Powers106](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers106)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/28 "2001-03-03T13:56:09Z")
Is there such a thing as a building that has a 13th floor that has been left VACANT? I mean, where the actual floor exists but where it is not indicated in the elevator or building directories? THAT would be interesting (and not just a little bit creepy…) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/29 "2001-03-03T17:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > This drives me crazy. Every building over 14 floors HAS a 13th floor. As noted you can call it 14 but it is still the 13th floor. And thus STILL unlucky. And how do you know what rules Lady Luck uses when she doles out blessings or misfortune? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Gregor\_Samsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@Gregor\_Samsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gregor_Samsa)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/30 "2001-03-03T17:43:50Z")
I’ve been in any number of buildings with no floor labelled “13.” However, I’ve also been in some with a 13th floor. I’ve always assumed it was just a superstitious thing. But what really kills me is that every airplane I’ve been on (when I’ve thought to check) has a row 13. Wouldn’t people be more afraid of being in row 13 on a plane than on floor 13 of a building? I mean, if that sort of thing bothers you anyway… All of which makes me think it started as a superstition but is now continued in the architecture world because it’s just always been that way. ---
**Author:** ![Stupendous\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Stupendous\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stupendous_man)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/31 "2001-03-03T20:22:33Z")
It seems to be based on superstition. One web site I came across says that it originated from the number of disciples that attended the last supper. I don’t know if that is correct or not, but I also read that certain other cultures omit other floors in accordance with superstitious rot that permeates sensibilities whereever they might be at the time… ---
**Author:** ![Catfood\_Purrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Catfood\_Purrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catfood_Purrito)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/32 "2001-03-04T01:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Powers106 \* > \*\*Is there such a thing as a building that has a 13th floor that has been left VACANT? I mean, where the actual floor exists but where it is not indicated in the elevator or building directories? > > THAT would be interesting (and not just a little bit creepy…) \*\* The building I work in, which has 23 floors, does have a 13th floor which is not accessible by elevator. It’s not referred to in any directories, as far as I know, and I actually had no idea it existed until I commented on the silly superstition about calling the 13th floor the 14th, and someone informed me that there is indeed a 13. It’s used for storage, there are no offices there. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/33 "2001-03-04T01:55:57Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s used for storage Yeah, that’s what they tell _you_, anyway. Storage of lost, tormented souls is probably more like it. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/34 "2001-03-04T02:52:29Z")
Here’s an article which discusses the question in a little more depth: [13 superstition sways designations of “missing” high-rise floors](http://www.naplesnews.com/today/restate/a120401k.htm) The architects seem to blame it on the elevator companies, and the elevator companies blame it on the consumers: > [@](#): > > “As an American superstition, it has gone into the fabric of society,” said Paul Drummond, the project manager for Aruba, the first of the Cove Towers being developed by WCI Communities at Tarpon Cove Yacht and Racquet Club, North Naples. “It is a conspiracy of the elevator people. When you order an elevator control panel, they won’t put a number 13 button on it.” > > “Actually,” said [Dwight] Thomas [WCI Communities project manager for The Windsor tower in Bay Colony], “the elevator company will put any numbers on a panel we request. Their product brochure, however, always leaves out the 13th floor.” > > “We always skip the number 13,” said Todd Zimmerman, the sales manager for Montgomery KONE, one of the largest manufacturers and installers of commercial and residential elevators in North America. “It is consumer driven. If we ever put it on detailed drawings, architects and developers always cross it out. No one ever wants it, particularly in residential buildings. Sometimes you will see a 13th floor in office buildings, but even that is rare.” ---
**Author:** ![Jeffro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jeffro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeffro)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/35 "2001-03-04T03:02:39Z")
Not only does my building have a thirteenth floor, I work on it! Of course it’s a government building so maybe that explains it. ---
**Author:** ![xash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c6cbf5/32.png) [@xash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xash)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/36 "2001-03-05T15:54:11Z")
well…a few bldgs. away from mine is a building that **HAS NO THIRTEENTH FLOOR** and by that i mean…u walk up from the 12th…u reach a flat open space much like the terrace…only it’s got beams running up to the 14th…and the bldg. continues as normal upto the 20th. so the 13th is totally wasted…in an area where space costs $1000 per square foot! ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/37 "2001-03-05T20:34:13Z")
Wow. I had heard about this, but I’ve never seen a building without a 13th floor, and I thought it was rare and old-fashioned. I’m stunned. Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![Wicked\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/2acd7d/32.png) [@Wicked\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wicked_Blue)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2001, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/38 "2001-03-05T22:13:44Z")
I just went to Las Vegas, and was kind of surprised when I checked in at the hotel and was told my room was on the 13th floor. I also noticed the room numbers on my floor all started with 13. I was surprised because I figured in a place like Vegas, where people try to be ‘lucky’, the hotel would have skipped 13. I’m not superstitious, but I guess I always assumed big buildings never had a 13th floor. I don’t think I have ever seen one before. Something else I noticed was that the Las Vegas airport did not have a Gate 13, but I did get to sit in Row 13 on the plane. So, to sum up, the Las Vegas Excalibur hotel does indeed have a 13th floor, the airport does not have a Gate 13, and you can sit in the 13th row on a SouthWest 737. Rose ---
**Author:** ![choosybeggar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@choosybeggar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choosybeggar)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/39 "2001-03-06T05:16:42Z")
**MEBuckner** , Thanks for the cite. I couldn’t find a thing. Nada. My take on the article is that there aren’t 13th floors because it’s the easy way to go. A perception exists that it may be harder to lease space on a thirteenth floor (and I’m sure data exist to substantiate this position :rolleyes: ). Since one loses little by omitting floor 13, it’s history in most buildings. And there’s little recourse for those of us that find the practice bothersome. It’s such an eensy weensy issue. Why would anyone waste their precious time fighting such a trend? But I, for one, would enjoy life at least an eensy, weensy bit more if this unholy incarnation of ignorance died slowly and painfully. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002/40 "2001-03-06T06:34:32Z")
I know there are a lot of buildings all over the Bay Area that call the 13th floor either 14 or 12b. Also, the Oakland Airport has no Gate 13. 14, 15, and 16 are also missing. I guess you can never be too sure… If you go to Dwinelle Hall on UC Berkeley campus, there is a lot of numerical weirdness there too. The rooms are numbered in an apparently random fashion, causing mass confusion with the students. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-13th-floor-ooh-im-sooo-scared/56002.md?page=3)