# The 17 Yr Olds Ultimatum SAGA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 25, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561 "2003-08-25T18:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/81 "2003-08-30T04:14:51Z")
Isabelle, I have been reading yor saga. I am sorry that you are having a miserable time with your son. I have to be really honest with you though. I think you need to start focusing on Isabelle more and on the son less. You are coming off as a control freak and it does seem like you are thriving on the drama. Just let go already. That is the main problem I feel you should be working on at this point. The odd thing is, you want control over stuff that isn’t (or shouldn’t be) a problem (such as the bus) , but you don’t take control where you should (i.e, the cell phone). Who is the parent again? Is it you? If you don’t deal with your issues now, be ready to face the same thing when your next child turns 17. Is that really what you want? I see that you are signed up for counseling and I hope it works out for you. ---
**Author:** ![Cosmopolitan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/94ad74/32.png) [@Cosmopolitan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cosmopolitan)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2003, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/82 "2003-08-30T05:51:16Z")
Hear, hear. You must, must, _must_ stop doing things like calling to see if he made it to work & checking the route for him. It only serves to allow him to slack while making you feel that he’s not doing anything to help himself. I understand that it must be difficult letting your kids grow up, but that’s what you gotta do: LET him grow up. Otherwise, he’ll never respect you & he may also feel that you underestimate him anyway, so he’ll just let you. I know that sometimes parents just say things, just in case, etc.: I’m 24 & my sister’s 22 - we live at home for financial reasons. We generally get along as a family so it’s not too bad. At the same time, however, I think that our living at home tends to trick our parents into thinking that we’re 14 - sometimes I have to remind my folks of my age. Case in point: They went out for the day while my sister & I hung around the house. Before they left, they told us to remember to shut everything up if it started to rain. I just looked at them, then calmly & reasonably said that we’re 24 & 22 & therefore know what to do when it starts to rain. My dad laughed & commented that yeah, he guessed we did. They’re so used to being parents, I think, that they have to remind themselves to let go. And that’s what you need to learn to do - let go, slowly but surely. \*Side note: I think that you’re off to a good start, but that you need to start really following the bits of advice that you feel are good. Otherwise, people may feel that you’re asking a question while already knowing the answer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/83 "2003-09-02T16:58:08Z")
Anything new happening with this? ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/84 "2003-09-02T17:05:04Z")
Well he didn’t want to get up at 4:30 in the morning to ride the bus for the remainder of last week or this weekend so he spent the entire weekend at a friends house. (His friend works with him) So he has yet to actually get up at 4:30 and take the 3.5 hour trek across town on the bus. He is a foreman at the landscaping place and this incident happened and pissed me off. His boss put a new guy on my son’s crew. Someone who knew nothing about lawn service. My son told him to lock up the equipment in the cage and then they drove off. The new guy did NOT put all the equipment on the cage and left a $350 weed eater at the last place that they were. So what happend? The boss went back to the place and coulnd’t find the weed eater so he charged **my son** $350 (because he is the foreman) I think that stinks! ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/85 "2003-09-02T17:44:18Z")
He was responsible for the equipment getting locked up, and it wasn’t. It sounds like his boss is also trying to teach him a little something about responsibility and consequences. Good for his boss. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Simple\_Dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Dreamer)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/86 "2003-09-02T17:49:34Z")
A harsh lesson, but if your son is the foreman of the crew he’s responsible for the equipment, regaurdless of his delegating the tasks. ---
**Author:** ![Vevila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@Vevila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vevila)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/87 "2003-09-02T17:49:39Z")
If your son is the foreman then he is responsible for the tools. How does it stink, exactly? Doesn’t that help teach your son _responsibility_ ? Or are you going to help pay for the weed eater and bail your son out ? I said it before and I’ll say it again. Contact a lawyer before your son moves out. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/88 "2003-09-02T19:30:05Z")
I guess several things bother me about this incident. A few months ago the foreman of the crew (age 23) was arrested and put in jail. The boss then gave the title of “foreman” to my son. He gave him credit cards and booku responsibilities but not the pay. He was then responsible for a crew of 8 guys. IMHO he should have recieved a raise too. His foreman came back and my son was given the responsibility of foreman for another crew. Obviously if he wasn’t doing a good job he woulnd’t have recieved the responsibilites. But where should his responsibilites begin and end? When he was under the foreman he broke a piece of equipment (not on purpose mind you) and _he_ was required to pay for it to be replaced. If I break something at the office I am not required to pay to replace it. No matter if it is a 500 printer or a .99 pencil. No I do NOT want to pay for the weed eater and bail him out of trouble! I agree this is teaching him responsibility but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/89 "2003-09-02T19:34:27Z")
Sounds like yer son needs to just quit that job. It’s a pain in the ass all around from what I can see. Hard to get to - lots of responsibility but no cash - and now he’s expected to pay for a piece of equipment? Screw that! ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/90 "2003-09-02T21:04:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\* > No I do NOT want to pay for the weed eater and bail him out of trouble! I agree this is teaching him responsibility but it doesn’t mean I have to like it. \*\* Relax, you’re not paying for the weed eater (if you do, make sure you use a little baby powder to make sure your hijito doesn’t get diaper rash) A quick boundary lesson: Don’t worry about “teaching” him anything in this situation. Work on respecting the fact that he can handle this on his own. Also work on the fact that you are unwilling to pay for his weed eater. Two separate things, not related to each other. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/91 "2003-09-02T21:37:53Z")
ISABELLE, with all due respect, it seems to me that you have to not only tell _him_ the following things, but tell them to _yourself_ as well, and more then just say them, _believe_ them. If he wants to be treated like an adult, then he must make his own decisions and live with the consequences. If his job is not great, because his boss is unfair or the commute sucks or he pay is unfair or whatever – it is _his_ job and _his_ decision to live with the situation, take steps to change it, or quit. No, you don’t have to like how he’s being treated, but you also don’t have to be angry about it because it is not your business and not your problem. As his mother, you understandably don’t like it when you think people are not treating him fairly but guess what? Life is not always fair. Shit happens to everyone and part of being an adult is dealing with it yourself. The bottom line is that it is not enough for you to _tell_ him he has to make his own decisions and live with the consequences. You have to _let_ him make his own decisions and _let_ him live with the consequences. How he gets to work is his problem. How he deals with issues at work is his problem. If he’s not living with you, how and when and if he gets home or has something to eat or _anything_ is his problem. Not yours. And I am telling you as a lawyer that the cell phone company is b.s.'ing you if they say there’s nothing you can do about his phone. Send them a letter that says you are _revoking_ the authorization of your credit card; that his use of the phone has been irresponsible and you are worried he will not be able to pay the bill; that you have requested they shut the account and they have refused; and that under those circumstances you are notifying them that you will accept no further responsibility for any charge made to the account as of the date of the letter. Tell them that if they attempt to charge your card you will dispute the charges with the credit card company and send them (the cc company) a copy of the letter as proof that the charges are not authorized. Call the phone company and ask for the address and fax number of the billing department; be sure to put the account number on the letter (if you know it); keep a copy of the letter for your files; and then fax it to them. You know in your head it’s time to let your son go, because keeping him close isn’t working for either of you. Now it’s time to know that in your heart. Let the boy go. Don’t call him more than once a week. Wait for him to grow up and find his way back to you. He almost certainly will, but not so long as the two of your are locked in a power struggle where you feel he’s taking advantage of you and he feels like you’re smothering him. Let him go. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/92 "2003-09-02T21:44:59Z")
And just to clarify: The phone company may be correct if they say that only HE can close the account (even though I doubt it, since he’s a minor). But they certainly cannot continue to hold YOU responsible for the charges once you’ve notified them to the contrary. That’s what the letter should say, and you want to send something in writing in case you need to prove the date of notification later. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/93 "2003-09-02T23:30:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*When he was under the foreman he broke a piece of equipment (not on purpose mind you) and _he_ was required to pay for it to be replaced. \*\* That was when he fell in the pool with the leaf blower, right? Why didn’t he just let go of the darn thing? \*\* > [@](#): > > If I break something at the office I am not required to pay to replace it. No matter if it is a 500 printer or a .99 pencil. > \*\* Your company probably has a lot more overhead, and can absorb these charges. ---
**Author:** ![zorabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3e96dc/32.png) [@zorabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zorabel)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/94 "2003-09-03T01:58:05Z")
He should find a job closer to home, sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/95 "2003-09-03T12:51:31Z")
The 17 Year Old had a job interview this morning at another landscaping place. This one is 5 miles from home. He could easily walk or ride a bike. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/96 "2003-09-03T12:57:44Z")
The 17 Year Old had a job interview this morning at another landscaping place. This one is 5 miles from home. He could easily walk or ride a bike. ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/97 "2003-09-03T13:05:53Z")
The 17 Year Old had a job interview this morning at another landscaping place. This one is 5 miles from home. He could easily walk or ride a bike. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/98 "2003-09-03T14:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > I think I wouldn’t have struggled so much with being his “friend” and would have focused more on being his “parent” > > I would have prevented him from seeing his father who is abusive/druggie/alcoholic at any cost. > Currently I have an enjunctiion against him until my son is 18. It has been 5-6 or 7 years since he has seen him. But when he did see him it was unhealthy. > > I would have drawn a line in the sand and when I said “don’t cross it” I woulnd’t have erased it and made another line and said “don’t cross this one” > > I would have found someone, somewhere to help me find programs to keep him busy instead of idle. > > Although he has many flaws. He has a giant heart. He is smart although he is not making good decisions. (He graduated a year early) It’s not him you want to remold. It’s yourself. > [@](#): > > He wants to be a fireman and is going to enroll in the program but you must be 18 and he has a way to go. I am not sure how I am going to foot the bill but I feel it is something I have to do for him. Why in the world would you pay for this? He’s the one gaining the benefits of being a fireman. He should be the one paying for it. When he enrolls, he’ll be an adult. Do you normally foot the bill for the expenses other adults incur, because I have a mortgage here…? My point is, when he’s an adult, you have no more responsibilities toward him than you have toward me, a random stranger a thousand miles away. Sure, you love him and want what’s best for him, but you shouldn’t butt into his financial business any more than you should mine. And his job is _his_ business. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/99 "2003-09-03T14:28:04Z")
I especially fail to see why YOU have to foot the bill for his training when apparently, he has a vastly greater disposable income than you. Have you contacted the cell phone people yet? If he incurs $500+ phone bills, then I fail to see how he can’t afford the cost of training. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561/100 "2003-09-03T15:57:53Z")
I stole this from some parenting tape my parents have. “That’s a bummer, I’m sure you can handle it.” Use it as a response, its proactive in that it is respecting the person with the problem, as well as being compassionate about the problem. Couldn’t find the bus? “That’s a bummer, I’m sure you can handle it.” Idiot left equipment out? “That’s a bummer, I’m sure you can handle it.” Didn’t save up for fireman school? “That’s a bummer, I’m sure you can handle it.” My parents started using this on us long ago. We got to the point that we only asked for help if we needed thoughts on how to handle a problem, actual implimentation is very much our own responsibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-17-yr-olds-ultimatum-saga/197561.md?page=6)