# The 1913 World v. the 2013 World. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628 "2013-09-25T06:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/21 "2013-09-25T18:55:50Z")
The porn is MUCH better than in 1913. No contest really. (and pretty much in every other quantifiable measure it’s better today than 100 years ago as well…but porn is my key metric) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/22 "2013-09-25T20:14:08Z")
[Here’s](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/then-and-now-what-100-years-change-looks-one-infographic) an infographic of 1913 vs 2013. They didn’t even HAVE infographics in 1913. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/23 "2013-09-25T21:00:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Now there are some better aspects of the 1913 world (at least for the West): less cultural degeneracy, superior fashion (especially for males), orthodox Christianity being far stronger (although only in the West, the reverse is true in the rest of the world), and a stronger spirit of faith in progress and science. So basically things that can’t be objectively measured? Kind of pointless things then. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/24 "2013-09-25T21:05:31Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Hats. Good riddance. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/25 "2013-09-25T21:09:22Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/then-and-now-what-100-years-change-looks-one-infographic) an infographic of 1913 vs 2013. > > They didn’t even HAVE infographics in 1913. I was thinking that 2013 was a slam dunk. Then I started reading the comments on that infographic. So it’s 2013, as long as you can ignore the fetid black hole that is the comments section of just about any article that appears on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/26 "2013-09-25T21:19:47Z")
Unless you’re a huge fan of filthy outhouses… 2013. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/27 "2013-09-25T21:21:46Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/then-and-now-what-100-years-change-looks-one-infographic) an infographic of 1913 vs 2013. > > They didn’t even HAVE infographics in 1913. Thank God we are no longer subject to the economic tyranny of Dutch Boy Paint and Campbell’s Soup! ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/28 "2013-09-25T21:29:13Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I was thinking that 2013 was a slam dunk. Then I started reading the comments on that infographic. So it’s 2013, as long as you can ignore the fetid black hole that is the comments section of just about any article that appears on the internet. There were lots of ignorant people back in 1913 as well, its just that you don’t hear much about them because their thoughts weren’t preserved for posterity. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/29 "2013-09-25T21:29:40Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/then-and-now-what-100-years-change-looks-one-infographic) an infographic of 1913 vs 2013. > > They didn’t even HAVE infographics in 1913. Adjusted for inflation it looks like the average individual income was $18,899.15 in 2013 dollars. Still bad, but not quite as bad as it looks in the raw comparison (though better than China is today at $5,680 in 2013 US dollars). The life expectancy figure really tells the tale though. ---
**Author:** ![Blakeyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blakeyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blakeyrat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/30 "2013-09-25T21:31:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I agree that by almost every measure we are better off now than we were back then. But there are a few areas in which we are worse off. > > 1. larger population and less untouched natural land. There’s a larger percentage of “touched, but then left untouched” land now. National parks didn’t exist in their current form until 1916. The logging industry was at its height in 1913. I’m not 100% sure that’s true, at least not in the US. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > 1. Although in many ways pollution is better now than it was before the environmental movement, our increased industrial capacity has made us capable of affecting the natural world in ways that were not possible in 1913 (massive Oil spills and Global warming). Compared to 1913, when almost all cities on Earth were heated with coal, coke, and wood-burning stoves? Ridiculous. The population growth might be responsible for more carbon output, but our use of burning fuels is orders of magnitude more efficient than in 1913. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > 3)The existence of nuclear weapons has in many way made the world more peaceful, but their existence allows for the possibility of an Armageddon undreamed of in 1913. I’d rather be nuked than be in a 1914 trench, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/31 "2013-09-25T22:33:22Z")
For hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians, yes, things are much better. For AIDS-ravaged western Africa, maybe not so much. Your average American is better off than in 1913 but is on a downhill slide, economically, but perhaps it’s reversible. Perhaps not. There doesn’t seem to be much will to reverse it, even among average Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/32 "2013-09-25T22:42:59Z")
I think “better off” is a pretty useless concept when comparing eras like that. What does better off mean? Is there an objective measure? It’s very easy to just kind of arbitrarily pick things you wouldn’t want to change about today and say that they’re better than they used to be. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/33 "2013-09-25T23:05:06Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > The internet, for one thing. Yes, not only was Al Gore not born yet, but his father was only 6. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/34 "2013-09-25T23:37:47Z")
[QUOTE=Eonwe] What does better off mean? Is there an objective measure? It’s very easy to just kind of arbitrarily pick things you wouldn’t want to change about today and say that they’re better than they used to be. [/QUOTE] Seems easy enough to me. Do people live longer? Do they live better? Do they have access to more services, entertainment, higher standard of living? Do they have better access to essentials like clean water and wholesome food (hell, do they HAVE access to those things at all)? All of these things seem objective enough to me, and quantifiable. What do you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/35 "2013-09-25T23:53:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The porn is MUCH better than in 1913. No contest really. > > (and pretty much in every other quantifiable measure it’s better today than 100 years ago as well…but porn is my key metric) I thought prostitution was significantly more available back then. From the point of view of a moral degenerate that’s a sad turn of events. > [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > [Here’s](http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-15/then-and-now-what-100-years-change-looks-one-infographic) an infographic of 1913 vs 2013. > > They didn’t even HAVE infographics in 1913. What’s baffling is how people are so much more educated now yet baby names have become ever so much more stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/36 "2013-09-25T23:56:20Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Unlike in 1913, we’re not a year away from a world war. > > Right? One hopes. Then again, so did _they…_ ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/37 "2013-09-26T00:02:58Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > One hopes. > Then again, so did _they…_ Yeah, but at least the Europeans could see the writing on the wall, and for the most part they didn’t look on the confrontation with dread but were actually excited by the prospect (of course, they all thought THEY would win and fairly quickly). However, in the US we were still several years from war and I don’t think many at that time thought that we’d be embroiled in a world war. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/38 "2013-09-26T00:16:33Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Better now? I would say so. Imagine the SDMB in 1913. We’d all be telegraph operators, communicating in Morse code. [Yes, we would.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Victorian_Internet) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/39 "2013-09-26T01:20:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Really? Are you in any way familiar with the expression “[The Great Binge?](http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread607246/pg1)” I meant more in the way of art of literature (admittedly by 1913 the first strand of modernism had popped up, but even they are better than the stuff produced these days. > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Hats. This. > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > For hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians, yes, things are much better. For AIDS-ravaged western Africa, maybe not so much. Your average American is better off than in 1913 but is on a downhill slide, economically, but perhaps it’s reversible. Perhaps not. There doesn’t seem to be much will to reverse it, even among average Americans. I don’t think western Africa was much better off. The people there would have been dying of other, more contagious diseases. The only places in the world that might have been better off in 1913 is North Korea (even though it was a Japanese colony) and Zimbabwe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628/40 "2013-09-26T01:35:48Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > I thought prostitution was significantly more available back then. And more dangerous to all concerned. At least nowadays, most STDs are treatable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1913-world-v-the-2013-world/669628.md?page=3)