# The 1st Amendment is a MUCH bigger threat to America than the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395 "2019-10-07T06:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/21 "2019-10-07T16:42:44Z")
I’m glad we’re in the Pit so I can comment that you people have no imagination. The First Amendment per se, is not itself, the huge problem — anyone who read OP would understand that much. _It amused me to title OP the way I did_: Setting aside the whole issue of “First Amendment” would any of you agree that the cesspool of political speech and partisanship America is faced with today is a serious problem? Far far more significant than Guns IMO. My relatively brief OP emphasized a quote by Susan Rice: **Our domestic political divisions are, in fact, at the moment our greatest national security vulnerability.** (The Russians figured that out.) (Political divisions caused by the cacophony of lies and half-truths from American “speech.”) Do any of you agree with her? Do you think her comments are more important than **septimus** ’ joking way of linking the two amendments? Or is it just more fun to pick on **septimus** than to discuss America’s serious problems? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/22 "2019-10-07T17:04:48Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The First Amendment per se, is not itself, the huge problem — anyone who read OP would understand that much. The OP mentioned the 1st amendment 5 separate times, outlining the fact that it is: a threat to America destroying our country provokes disinformation unifies haters and that social media makes it dangerous, or perhaps the other way around? You then suggest that we should grok what the real problems are, which apparently isn’t the 1st amendment at all, but something mentioned in your post by literally the only text of your OP that wasn’t written by you. BTW, I agree that our political divisions are a significant threat, I just disagree that it has much at all to do with the 1st or 2nd amendments. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/23 "2019-10-07T17:18:37Z")
Our political divisions are a problem, in that currently the associated rhetoric makes meaningful discussion difficult. Despite that, the fact that we have them is one of the things that make America great. In the long run, the best idea wins, or at least really bad ideas tend to die over time (not all, not all the time, not in everyone - but generally they do) We have seen societies were political divisions were/are not articulated. I don’t even have to Godwinize the thread - look at China to see what probems that can bring. Also, hands off the Bill of Rights. Myers-Brigg = Much-Bokum Last: **Cheesesteak** funny. **MrDibble** even funnier. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/24 "2019-10-07T17:26:51Z")
While I despise the trolls, liars, Russian bots, rightwing fake “news” and the borderline Nazi right wingers currently spewing their lying shit, I do not want the administration - especially THIS CURRENT administration deciding what will be allowed. Fuck NO. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/25 "2019-10-07T18:22:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m glad we’re in the Pit so I can comment that you people have no imagination. > > The First Amendment per se, is not itself, the huge problem — anyone who read OP would understand that much. _It amused me to title OP the way I did_: Setting aside the whole issue of “First Amendment” would any of you agree that the cesspool of political speech and partisanship America is faced with today is a serious problem? Far far more significant than Guns IMO. > > My relatively brief OP emphasized a quote by Susan Rice: > **Our domestic political divisions are, in fact, at the moment our greatest national security vulnerability.** (The Russians figured that out.) > (Political divisions caused by the cacophony of lies and half-truths from American “speech.”) Do any of you agree with her? Do you think her comments are more important than **septimus** ’ joking way of linking the two amendments? > > Or is it just more fun to pick on **septimus** than to discuss America’s serious problems? So, disagreeing with septimus’s groupthink is bad think? So sorry. You realize that _you_ are actually part of the problem? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/26 "2019-10-07T18:30:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So, disagreeing with septimus’s groupthink is bad think? So sorry. That all the voices in **septimus** ’ head are saying the same thing doesn’t constitute groupthink. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/27 "2019-10-09T19:54:29Z")
[Perhaps this Rachel Maddow segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us32ZBdQjjU) will help disabuse Dopers of their ignorance. Freedom of speech is Freedom to Lie, and is destroying information dissemination and intelligent factual politics. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/28 "2019-10-09T20:00:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Of course it is. How would I know if I’m an introvert or not? It’s cool to be an introvert these days, so plenty of people have convinced themselves that they’re deep and self-reflecting instead of what they actually are, which is just plain boring. People lie all the time, and they lie to themselves the most. I NEVER lie to myself… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/29 "2019-10-09T20:07:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The 1st Amendment is a MUCH **MUCH** bigger threat to America than the 2nd Amendment. (An extra thousand deaths per month? Who cares! There’d still be 200,000 dead Americans every month.) > > _It is the 1st Amendment that is destroying our country._ Just for starters it provokes disinformation and unifies haters. Susan Rice says > [This video touches on the attacks of social medias,](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKd2QVrQVIM) the new technology which makes the 1st Amendment so dangerous. (Which is cause and which effect?) > > I expect to be attacked by BOTH the Left and the Right for this post. But note that I am not calling for a direct repeal of the First Amendment (as if that were even possible). (I’m an INTP not like most of you, who are INTJ’s 😛 .) I just want us all to FIRST grok what the real problems are; THEN we can seek solutions. … If it’s not too late. I tried to grok it but basically just got a prompt back. Not sure what that means. I didn’t watch the video…I will actually try and slog through it if I get some time tonight, but just commenting on the assertion that the 1st is a bigger threat than the 2nd I’d go with…neither are actually threats to America. But what you seem to be saying the issue with the 1st is (i.e. it allows for hate speech) is actually a feature, not a bug. Also, even in places that heavily censor speech, there doesn’t seem any way to stifle hate speech. What you end up doing is just forcing it underground. As an example, look at China. Now, they HEAVILY censor speech in China. Yet, the Chinese have found myriad ways around the government censors, including intricate and ever changing codes and phrases. In many European countries, DESPITE heavy censorship you still have plenty of hate speech, or hateful people who are still speaking and spewing their hate. So, I don’t think the 1st is the issue, and I don’t think it’s a threat to the US. Nor do I think that getting rid of the 1st would ‘fix’ this issue in any way. It’s not going to stop hate speech, or hateful fucks from spewing their hate. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/30 "2019-10-09T20:18:07Z")
Surprised no one has posted this yet: [New York Times op-ed: Free Speech is Killing Us](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/04/opinion/sunday/free-speech-social-media-violence.html) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/31 "2019-10-09T20:31:42Z")
The problem is, America the nation state and the American Constitution are being barraged by technological and social change with which it cannot keep up. Constitutions, like societies, have life cycles: they are born, they live, they decline and become something else. That’s what’s happening now, I’m afraid, and like you, I don’t have answers. I don’t think anyone does. What I hope is that things don’t get so bad before the Christianized military takes over and tries to create its own dystopian God state. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/32 "2019-10-09T21:03:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The problem is, America the nation state and the American Constitution are being barraged by technological and social change with which it cannot keep up. Constitutions, like societies, have life cycles: they are born, they live, they decline and become something else. That’s what’s happening now, I’m afraid, and like you, I don’t have answers. I don’t think anyone does. > > What I hope is that things don’t get so bad before the Christianized military takes over and tries to create its own dystopian God state. Coming from you this is hilarious. You are Lefty Trump. You name call. You are hysterical. You are unhinged. How could we possibly live without an Asahi gem like this. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882921](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882921) Heal thyself ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/33 "2019-10-09T22:11:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Perhaps this Rachel Maddow segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us32ZBdQjjU) will help disabuse Dopers of their ignorance. > > Freedom of speech is Freedom to Lie, and is destroying information dissemination and intelligent factual politics. And you’d give the power to regulate speech to the most powerful entity in the world? Are you insane or retarded? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/34 "2019-10-09T22:21:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > [Perhaps this Rachel Maddow segment](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us32ZBdQjjU) will help disabuse Dopers of their ignorance. > > Freedom of speech is Freedom to Lie, and is destroying information dissemination and intelligent factual politics. A small percentage of Americans even pay attention to the political barbs, mis-information, lies, pundit-speak, etc. that gets spewed everyday. Although the % that does pay attention is higher for the users on this site. Most people go to work, feed themselves, take care of their kids, watch their favorite TV shows, worry about how they’re going to pay their bills that are coming up, try to get a good nights sleep, and then do it again the next day. I highly doubt, that the penetration of the problem you speak of will grow much, it’s just the way Americans live their lives. The majority just don’t care. As such, it will hardly destroy our country. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/35 "2019-10-09T22:27:48Z")
“The pen is mightier then they sword” Yes freedom has certain components that has the populous hold a certain amount of power and to do as they wish with it (or else it’s not a freedom). That last presidential election showed it’s ability to be manipulated by foreign and hostel powers to their advantage, but in giving freedom it includes the ability to make mistakes and the faith that those who are given freedom will learn from them, adapt and overcome. Ultimately being better then they started. It is the growth of a child leaning about life through choices both good and bad. But without that there is no child, no freedom, only the rule by dark hands. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/36 "2019-10-10T02:19:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Coming from you this is hilarious. You are Lefty Trump. You name call. You are hysterical. You are unhinged. How could we possibly live without an Asahi gem like this. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882921](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=882921) > > Heal thyself Nah, no healing necessary. I’m a realist. I realize that the America we know is probably gone forever. I have accepted this; it’s the rest of America that’s going to be losing its shit. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/37 "2019-10-10T02:24:43Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > As such, it will hardly destroy our country. It will destroy our country. We won’t recognize that we’ve been destroyed until it’s too late. My fellow liberals have been telling me to get a grip for the last 2-3 years but it’s beginning to sink in that the republican party is anti-democratic and is perfectly willing to destroy democracy to achieve their vision of America. The reason the rest of the country isn’t outraged is that they don’t understand what it means to live under an oligarchy with disproportionate power, and what it means when we can no longer rely on democratic mechanisms to respond to the concerns of the masses. In 1776, we embarked on an experiment of self-rule; in 2017, we embarked on an entirely different experiment: the experiment of minority rule. Get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/38 "2019-10-10T03:01:27Z")
This country will not be destroyed by anything short of a comet or nuclear war. The country will change, as it has dozens of times in the past, and we will adapt, as we have done in the past. And there will be alarmists like you and the OP saying the country is being destroyed, as they have wrongly and stupidly said in the past. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/39 "2019-10-10T03:04:35Z")
The current administration consists of criminals and fucktards on the right, and lazy, scared, career politicians on the left. This is the current administration, a mere glitch that will eventually right itself with new elections, and progressive democrats that aren’t afraid to stand up to the fuckers in charge. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/40 "2019-10-10T03:10:03Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > The current administration consists of criminals and fucktards on the right, and lazy, scared, career politicians on the left. This is the current administration, a mere glitch that will eventually right itself with new elections, and progressive democrats that aren’t afraid to stand up to the fuckers in charge. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!! Keep whistling in the dark, mate. Memo to you: it’s not Trump that’s the problem…it’s the bloody fucking millions of morons who continue to support Trumpism. This isn’t a tornado that will soon pass; this is a manmade disaster manufactured by millions of angry white christian bitter-as-fuck morons. And ain’t nothin you or I can do to appease 'em. Like I said, get used to it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=3)