# The 1st Amendment is a MUCH bigger threat to America than the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395 "2019-10-07T06:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/41 "2019-10-10T03:27:22Z")
OP, if you want to say Freedom of Speech is a threat, by all means, do so. You probably see Freedom of the Press as destructive, too. But what do Freedom of Religion, the Right to Assemble Peaceably, and the Right to Redress Grievances have to do with your complaints? The problem isn’t Freedom of Speech; it’s that there are too few voices using Freedom of Speech to demand truth. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/42 "2019-10-10T04:04:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Nah, no healing necessary. I’m a realist. I realize that the America we know is probably gone forever. I have accepted this; it’s the rest of America that’s going to be losing its shit. Why does everything have to be the end of the world around here? I cannot imagine how SDMB would have been during WWII or the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/43 "2019-10-10T04:06:14Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > The current administration consists of criminals and fucktards on the right, and lazy, scared, career politicians on the left. This is the current administration, a mere glitch that will eventually right itself with new elections, and progressive democrats that aren’t afraid to stand up to the fuckers in charge. ‘Progressive’ democrats won’t be what you hope they’ll be if they ever seize power. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/44 "2019-10-10T04:38:39Z")
I’ve already noted that OP title is whimsical. But the whimsy contains a dire message: Push gun control (for example) and America’s real problems just get worse. I’m explaining my thesis — whatever it is — very poorly? Guilty as charged. _ **And I have no solution to offer.** _ ☹ Repeal the First Amendment? No, that ain’t it. Maybe one of you will discern the message and propose a solution. Ridicule the messengers? No, that ain’t the solution either. > [@nelliebly](#): > > … The problem isn’t Freedom of Speech; it’s that there are too few voices using Freedom of Speech to demand truth. OK. _ **How are we going to do that?** _ I’m just asking here for the problem to be recognized; but Dopers would rather ridicule me than admit there’s a problem. Thanks to **nelliebly** for helping articulate the problem, rather than joining the game “Laugh at OP.” (And if I don’t have a solution, does that mean I shouldn’t mention the problem?) Lies and false facts are now almost becoming the rule rather than the exception. News shows which tell the truth are now assumed to be lying, since lying is the norm. And just as “lierally” literally doesn’t mean “literally” anymore, so “corruption” has become an unusable term as Rachel Maddow complains in the recent segment: > [@Definition](#): > > cor·rup·tion > /kəˈrəpSH(ə)n/ > [Pronounce](https://media.merriam-webster.com/audio/prons/en/us/mp3/c/corrup08.mp3) > noun > noun: corruption; plural noun: corruptions > > ``` > 1. dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. > "the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places" > > 2. the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased. > > ``` > [@Definition](#): > > cor·rup·tion > /kəˈrəpSH(ə)n/ > [Pronounce](https://media.merriam-webster.com/audio/prons/en/us/mp3/c/corrup08.mp3) > noun > noun: corruption; plural noun: corruptions > > ``` > 1. dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery. > "the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places" > > 2. efforts to combat corruption by the press or politicians. > "the White House denounced as corruption efforts to expose high-level corruption" > > 3. the process by which something, typically a word or expression, is changed from its original use or meaning to one that is regarded as erroneous or debased. > "he watched two different news channels, so wasn't sure whether the impeachers were guilty of corruption or guilty of corruption, but he was annoyed by linguistic corruption" > > ``` ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ @ **octopus** — Watchathink? Are the Patriots going all the way this year? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/45 "2019-10-10T05:00:57Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I’m a realist. That’s not the impression you’re putting forth on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/46 "2019-10-10T06:45:40Z")
Between **septimus** and **asahi** , I think we should be focusing on the 25th Amendment, not the 1st. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/47 "2019-10-10T09:33:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I tried to grok it but basically just got a prompt back. Not sure what that means. > > I didn’t watch the video…I will actually try and slog through it if I get some time tonight, but just commenting on the assertion that the 1st is a bigger threat than the 2nd I’d go with…neither are actually threats to America. But what you seem to be saying the issue with the 1st is (i.e. it allows for hate speech) is actually a feature, not a bug. Also, even in places that heavily censor speech, there doesn’t seem any way to stifle hate speech. What you end up doing is just forcing it underground. > > As an example, look at China. Now, they HEAVILY censor speech in China. Yet, the Chinese have found myriad ways around the government censors, including intricate and ever changing codes and phrases. In many European countries, DESPITE heavy censorship you still have plenty of hate speech, or hateful people who are still speaking and spewing their hate. So, I don’t think the 1st is the issue, and I don’t think it’s a threat to the US. Nor do I think that getting rid of the 1st would ‘fix’ this issue in any way. It’s not going to stop hate speech, or hateful fucks from spewing their hate. I’m fairly certain that most people who want to get rid of Freedom of Speech are either people who had the privilege of being born and lived their entire life in a society where that right is enshrined and as such have not the sightless clue on what not having it entails, or they are insecure, would be despots that daydream of having the power to control what people say or even think. Between dangerously clueless and dangerously authoritarian those are the last people who should be trusted with “solutions” to the moral panic of the day. To be honest, such people remind me of anti-vaxers, they were born and raised in an environment made safe by the very thing they fear and loathe without even realizing how much worse things would be if they had things done to their liking. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/48 "2019-10-10T11:16:26Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > This country will not be destroyed by anything short of a comet or nuclear war. The country will change, as it has dozens of times in the past, and we will adapt, as we have done in the past. And there will be alarmists like you and the OP saying the country is being destroyed, as they have wrongly and stupidly said in the past. Certain changes amount to destruction, especially for those of us who face becoming permanent second-class citizens in a system further rigged in favor of a historically privileged group. “Destruction” is a metaphor, but maybe it’s not a big thing to someone who expects to benefit. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/49 "2019-10-10T11:20:40Z")
_This isn’t a tornado that will soon pass; this is a manmade disaster manufactured by millions of angry white christian bitter-as-fuck morons. And ain’t nothin you or I can do to appease 'em._ We had the same shit, to a lesser degree, with Bush Sr., then we had 8 years of Clinton. Then we had the Shrub, then Obama. Neither Bush, despite their best efforts, managed to destroy the country. We had right wing mania during their years, then we swung back to the left. We’ll do that again, if not in the next election, then the one after that. This country will survive, unless global warming gets us. Now why don’t you be a good little troll and go back to watching Alex Jones videos. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/50 "2019-10-10T11:29:05Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > _This isn’t a tornado that will soon pass; this is a manmade disaster manufactured by millions of angry white christian bitter-as-fuck morons. And ain’t nothin you or I can do to appease 'em._ > > We had the same shit, to a lesser degree, with Bush Sr., then we had 8 years of Clinton. Then we had the Shrub, then Obama. Neither Bush, despite their best efforts, managed to destroy the country. We had right wing mania during their years, then we swung back to the left. Everything is unprecedented until it happens. What is happening now is a group of people power altering the functioning systems of democracy, making it harder for them to lose elections. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/51 "2019-10-10T11:34:20Z")
But they will lose, or face term limits. Either way, this is only temporary, history has shown us that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/52 "2019-10-10T12:37:03Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > But they will lose, or face term limits. Either way, this is only temporary, history has shown us that. This is meaningless nonsense. History has shown is a lot of things, and not all of them had good outcomes. And the things that can happen aren’t limited by history. History has shown us that a brutal system of human bondage can go on for two and a half centuries only ending after a four-year-long war that killed 800,000 people, followed by another century of an apartheid like regime. The only person who isn’t worried is the one who believes E and the people E cares about are safe from any danger. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/53 "2019-10-10T12:47:17Z")
No, the only people not worried are not pessimists, cynics, and alarmists. The people not worrying have seen this played out a few times in their own lifetime, they have seen how the country swings from right to left and back again. They have seen the alarmists declaring the end of civilization as we know it, yet we’re still here, and will continue to be here for some time, not destroyed by some assholes in DC or their abuse of power and the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Marion\_Morrison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@Marion\_Morrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marion_Morrison)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/54 "2019-10-10T13:00:56Z")
The 2nd amendment guarantees the 1st. I suggest you don’t mess with either. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/55 "2019-10-10T13:11:14Z")
Say, that would make an awesome bumper sticker! You could sell it to gun people! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/56 "2019-10-10T13:29:04Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > The people not worrying have seen this played out a few times in their own lifetime, You realize that the things that people have seen “played out” within their lifetimes have sometimes resulted in great harm to individuals? Sometimes a large number of them. There are also the things that have happened just beyond their lifetimes. One’s lifetime isn’t a very good metric, especially when you limit your assessments based only on what has directly affected you. There have been some monstrously horrific things that have happened in people’s lifetimes, but maybe it happened to someone just far enough away that they aren’t taken into account. What has happened to _you_ isn’t a very good metric for what might happen. > [@](#): > > they have seen how the country swings from right to left and back again. Some of those swings have been deadly, and the next swing might go farther and take longer than the last. This perspective is almost willfully myopic. > [@](#): > > yet we’re still here That’s the point, isn’t it. _You’re_ still here. And you expect to survive whatever might happen. There are people who didn’t survive. Their point of view shouldn’t be discounted. > [@](#): > > and will continue to be here for some time, not destroyed by some assholes in DC or their abuse of power and the constitution. You think calling someone an “asshole” deprives em of es ability to harm people? ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/57 "2019-10-10T13:43:05Z")
How does it feel, being so fucking cynical all the time? The point is, we are still here, as a country, and we will be here for generations to come. We will not be destroyed by the assholes temporarily in power. And you missed the point about seeing history played out in a lifetime. We have seen it played out over countless lifetimes. We have seen the way history repeats itself, we have seen the way that we have overcome the worst the government has to offer, we have survived corrupt politicians and administrations, and we will continue to do so. No one but an absolute cynic would claim otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/58 "2019-10-10T14:01:02Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > _This isn’t a tornado that will soon pass; this is a manmade disaster manufactured by millions of angry white christian bitter-as-fuck morons. And ain’t nothin you or I can do to appease 'em._ > > We had the same shit, to a lesser degree, with Bush Sr., then we had 8 years of Clinton. Then we had the Shrub, then Obama. Neither Bush, despite their best efforts, managed to destroy the country. We had right wing mania during their years, then we swung back to the left. We’ll do that again, if not in the next election, then the one after that. This country will survive, unless global warming gets us. Now why don’t you be a good little troll and go back to watching Alex Jones videos. This probably highlights THE problem in today’s America. We endeavor to wait until WE are back in power instead of working together to find solutions to problems that both sides can advocate for. Divide and Conquer. Only with this mindset , it’s let them have their fun until we get the reins back then we can have ours. And the only people doing the conquering are those funding the political parties … Get the money out of politics and most of the problems go away with it. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/59 "2019-10-10T14:07:06Z")
\*We endeavor to wait until WE are back in power instead of working together to find solutions to problems that both sides can advocate for. \* We have people in congress fighting for that, but it takes both sides working together, and one side is clearly not working with the other side. And we do not “endeavor to wait until WE are back in power”. We have democrats in congress, more democrats running, working to try to stabilize and fix the wrongs the right has perpetrated. We are not just idly sitting by, we are fighting, not just complaining about how bad it is. _Get the money out of politics and most of the problems go away with it._ We’re working on it, one state at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/60 "2019-10-10T14:12:23Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > How does it feel, being so fucking cynical all the time? I’m not being cynical now, and I am hardly ever cynical, not to speak of “all the time.” You have a very narrow perspective on the world around you, and a very myopic view of the lessons of history. _We_ have survived? That “we” is meaningless. Think of all the people who aren’t included in that “we.” Think of all the people who can’t afford to let history play out to its rosy ending that you think history mandates. Looking back at that history you cling to, think about who _didn’t_ make it to end up included in your “we.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=4)