# The 1st Amendment is a MUCH bigger threat to America than the 2nd Amendment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395 "2019-10-07T06:42:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/81 "2019-10-12T03:59:36Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > But Sharia is the epitome of conservative religious values. Not sure why people consider it a “liberal” ideal. To some people, liberalism represents a giant collective mass of everything they hate or fear. So liberals are Muslims and Satanists and atheists (and maybe Jews and Catholics); liberals are Democrats and Socialists and Communists and Nazis; liberals are out-of-touch elitists in their ivory towers and cold-hearted bankers in their Wall Street offices and no account white trash and lazy minorities and illegal aliens who don’t want to work and will steal your job; liberals are people who are always having abortions and breed like rabbits; liberals are fuzzy-minded pacifists who refuse to defend themselves and violent rioters who will attack you for looking at them - and they’re all of these things at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/82 "2019-10-12T09:52:06Z")
Excellent post, **Little Nemo**. If anyone thinks he exaggerates, look at dome excerpts from the introduction to the Conservapedia page on Liberals. (I’ve included some items which show hilarious lack of self-awareness.) > [@https://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal](#): > > Liberals often support the censorship and denial of biblical Christianity … Liberals prefer atheism/agnosticism over the Christian faith, as atheism has no objective morality to hinder their big government plans. > > Increasingly, liberals side with the homosexual agenda, including homosexual “marriage”. Liberals favor a welfare state where people receive endless entitlements without working. The liberal ideology has degenerated into economically unsound views and intolerant ideology. All liberals support, in knee-jerk fashion, the opposite of conservative principles, while lacking an actual ideology or values of their own. Many of them cannot understand Christian language. Liberals are especially prone to believe conspiracy theories … > > Liberals support the following political positions and practices: > > ``` > Opposition to Natural Law, unalienable rights, and republicanism, and support for the War on Freedom > Wasting money on ineffective government programs ... > In the United States, the Democrat Party and liberals have moved so far left that [some] are sympathetic to Communism. > In 1988, the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) ... stopped running presidential candidates because the gap between Democrats and American communists had grown smaller. > Denial of science (especially creation science) > Hypocrisy > The belief ... that the main reason for Islamic extremists' hostility towards America is because of bad foreign policy > Brainwashing voters with propaganda > Hedonism > Taxpayer-funded and state-encouraged abortion > Rejection of Biblical standards > Naive acceptance of the Idea of Progress > Hatred of those they disagree with (see: Liberal hate speech) > Murder (through abortion, infanticide, assisted suicide, and euthanasia) > Unsuccessful Keynesian economics as opposed to sound free-market economics > Crying instead of accepting reality > Cessation of teacher-led prayer in classrooms and school/state-sponsored religious events. > Affirmative action > Support for obscenity, pornography and violence in video games > De facto authoritarian government > Authoritarian mindset > Government-funded medical care, such as Obamacare and "Medicare For All" > Fascist tendencies (see also: Homo-fascism) > Strong support for the Nanny State and big government policies > Belief in evolution > Destroying the Christian foundations on which America was built. > Destroying conservative family values and replacing them with immoral Hollywood values, such as abortion > Brainwashing through government-censored public education > Smearing > Libertine sexual morality (see: Evolutionary belief and sexual immorality and Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity) > Non-syndicalist labor unions > Many liberals engage in racism ... > Bigotry > Trump Derangement Syndrome > Encouraging promiscuity and immorality through sexual education rather than teaching abstinence from premarital sex > Government programs to rehabilitate criminals > Slander (see Liberal Smear Machine and Politics of personal destruction) > Third- and fourth-wave feminism, gender confusion, and anti-family policies > Anti-Americanism > Abolition of the death penalty > Reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine > Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the Patriot Act > Encouragement of "global warming" alarmism > Rejection of logical standards > > ``` > > Some liberals support: > > ``` > High tolerance of government corruption as long as it is done by other liberals > Bestiality as a human right > Robbery and other forms of crime (see Gun control) > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/83 "2019-10-12T11:08:56Z")
[conservapedia.com](http://conservapedia.com), yeah, no fucking bias there. Also, idiot, Nemo is ridiculing your way of thinking, but I wouldn’t expect a fucktard like you to catch on to small unimportant phrases like “To some people”. In this case, “some people” means even bigger idiots than you are. He is portraying idiots like you as people Archie Bunker would laugh at. But you’re so stupid, you don’t even realize you’re being called stupid. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/84 "2019-10-12T12:44:53Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > [conservapedia.com](http://conservapedia.com), yeah, no fucking bias there. Also, idiot, Nemo is ridiculing your way of thinking, but I wouldn’t expect a fucktard like you to catch on to small unimportant phrases like “To some people”. In this case, “some people” means even bigger idiots than you are. He is portraying idiots like you as people Archie Bunker would laugh at. But you’re so stupid, you don’t even realize you’re being called stupid. I guess you think I’m a right-winger. :smack: This will come as a surprise to any Doper who has even the tiniest soupçon of a clue. ---
**Author:** ![atimnie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atimnie/32/11_2.png) [@atimnie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atimnie)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/85 "2019-10-12T13:13:16Z")
I don’t care if you’re right wing or left wing, all I know is, you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/86 "2019-10-13T18:11:41Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > How does it feel, being so fucking cynical all the time? The point is, we are still here, as a country, and we will be here for generations to come. We will not be destroyed by the assholes temporarily in power. And you missed the point about seeing history played out in a lifetime. We have seen it played out over countless lifetimes. We have seen the way history repeats itself, we have seen the way that we have overcome the worst the government has to offer, we have survived corrupt politicians and administrations, and we will continue to do so. No one but an absolute cynic would claim otherwise. Yeah, bro, like the point is, we’re, like, still molecular and shit. All good. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/87 "2019-10-13T19:08:01Z")
> [@atimnie](#): > > [conservapedia.com](http://conservapedia.com), yeah, no fucking bias there. Also, idiot, Nemo is ridiculing your way of thinking, but I wouldn’t expect a fucktard like you to catch on to small unimportant phrases like “To some people”. In this case, “some people” means even bigger idiots than you are. He is portraying idiots like you as people Archie Bunker would laugh at. But you’re so stupid, you don’t even realize you’re being called stupid. Thanks, atimnie, but if I want to start a fight with somebody, I can do it myself. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/88 "2019-10-13T19:37:44Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I agree with you, in the sense that nobody on the left would ever support Sharia. > > I think the “logic” goes like this… > > 1. The left supports Muslims as an underrepresented minority in the country. > > 2. Some parts of the Muslim world live under Sharia law which can be brutal depending on how it’s applied. > > 3. Insist that Muslims in America are trying to sneak in Sharia (…how could that ever happen…?!) so that people on the left look complicit in some dark anti-American plot. > > You again have to ignore that Sharia law would be against every value the left professes. An authoritarian religious institution that often oppresses women and homosexuals. Sounds like a left-wing utopia! :rolleyes: No, but (and I know where you’re going with this) it sounds a hell of a lot like the Dominionist, Christian Reconstructionist, Religious “Right”. The American Taliban. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/89 "2019-10-13T20:53:02Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > No, but (and I know where you’re going with this) it sounds a hell of a lot like the Dominionist, Christian Reconstructionist, Religious “Right”. The American Taliban. There are absolutely some extremist Christian groups in the US that have Taliban traits. I can’t disagree. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/90 "2019-10-14T09:04:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ‘Progressive’ democrats won’t be what you hope they’ll be if they ever seize power. Nobody ever is. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/91 "2019-10-14T09:14:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > To some people, liberalism represents a giant collective mass of everything they hate or fear. So liberals are Muslims and Satanists and atheists (and maybe Jews and Catholics); liberals are Democrats and Socialists and Communists and Nazis; liberals are out-of-touch elitists in their ivory towers and cold-hearted bankers in their Wall Street offices and no account white trash and lazy minorities and illegal aliens who don’t want to work and will steal your job; liberals are people who are always having abortions and breed like rabbits; liberals are fuzzy-minded pacifists who refuse to defend themselves and violent rioters who will attack you for looking at them - and they’re all of these things at the same time. So you say some people think that liberals are a coalition of a bunch of wacky types. Perhaps you should spend more time thinking than typing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/92 "2019-10-14T17:21:41Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So you say some people think that liberals are a coalition of a bunch of wacky types. Perhaps you should spend more time thinking than typing. I’m good with my current thinking to typing ratio. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/93 "2019-10-14T17:27:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > ‘Progressive’ democrats won’t be what you hope they’ll be if they ever seize power. I remember someone from the Obama WH once expressing annoyance about the continuing complaints from “the professional left”. I’d expect even a President Bernie would have to face that. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/94 "2019-10-14T17:50:13Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Excellent post, **Little Nemo**. If anyone thinks he exaggerates, look at dome excerpts from the introduction to the Conservapedia page on Liberals. (I’ve included some items which show hilarious lack of self-awareness.) What stands out to me at looking at that list of so-called “liberal” things, is that whoever’s writing them has an EXTREMELY narrow view of them- very much a “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” kind of viewpoint. Lots of examples where they’re claiming that if you don’t take a stand against X, then you’re supporting/advocating/encouraging X. Which we all know isn’t true. For example, sex education is (or should be) relatively neutral- neither encouraging it nor passing moral judgments on it either, and sticking mainly to the plumbing, consequences and circumstances (no means no, etc…) And I would even say that a comment that the best way not to get pregnant, a STI, etc… is not to have sex, wouldn’t be out of place in a reasonable sex ed program. But the people writing those lists seem to have the idea that if you’re not pushing abstinence super-hard, then you’re encouraging premarital sex among teenagers. Which is not correct at all. It’s merely not pushing a specific viewpoint, and not a very pragmatic one at that. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/95 "2019-10-14T18:13:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Another idiot. A Myers-Briggs test asks “Are you an introvert?”, phrasing that question five different ways. At the end it tells you whether you’re an introvert or not! > > One can make complaints about such a test, e.g. > (a) it just tells you what you already knew, or > (b) it can be manipulated (an extrovert might answer the questions pretending to be an introvert) > > … but calling it “pseudo-scientific bullshit” shows a staggering level of ignorance and/or confusion. The claim that Jupiter in square with Venus shows introversion is pseudo-science. How, pray tell, is answering “Yes” to the question “Are you an introvert?” in the same category? Psst, M-B dude, [The Personality Brokers.](https://www.amazon.com/Personality-Brokers-Strange-History-Myers-Briggs/dp/0385541902) Recommended for introverts, extroverts, or nontroverts. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/96 "2019-10-15T23:50:07Z")
Septimus, the first amendment is a totally different thing from the modern ideal of "freedom of speach’. The first amendment in that it prevents the government from political censorship is totally cool. The modern ideal that Twitter banning users is a 1st amendment thing is totally fucked. Citations Needed is an excellent podcast and you should listen to their free speech episode. I think it’s totally possible to be against free speech and still support the first amendment. They’re not the same. We pick and choose what’s acceptable discussion all the time. We don’t expect that a student should be able to hold up evolutionary biology 101 debating intelligent design until theyre convinced. The idea that we should be relitaging like racial hiercharchy because someone needs convincing is more political than just disallowing the conversation in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/97 "2019-10-16T19:53:01Z")
I mostly agree. Again, the “1st Amendment” in thread title was a rhetorical flourish. OTOH, “free speech” has been cited to allow unlimited PAC spending, and to allow vile hate speech. And especially: We really need some workaround — (repealing 1st\_A ain’t it) — against the freedom to Lie on Facebook which really has degraded American discourse, even encouraging foreign subversion. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/98 "2019-10-16T20:38:59Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I mostly agree. Again, the “1st Amendment” in thread title was a rhetorical flourish. > > OTOH, “free speech” has been cited to allow unlimited PAC spending, and to allow vile hate speech. And especially: We really need some workaround — (repealing 1st\_A ain’t it) — against the freedom to Lie on Facebook which really has degraded American discourse, even encouraging foreign subversion. The “workaround” is to educate people so that they are inured against such memetic interference. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/99 "2019-10-16T20:46:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The “workaround” is to educate people so that they are inured against such memetic interference. That’s 100% correct. Unfortunately, there is far too much hypocrisy with regards to support for rights in this country. It’s too easy to whine about free speech instead of teaching critical thinking skills. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395/100 "2019-10-16T20:46:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Yeah, bro, like the point is, we’re, like, still molecular and shit. > > All good. Speak for yourself. I’m quantum…and tubular. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-1st-amendment-is-a-much-bigger-threat-to-america-than-the-2nd-amendment/841395.md?page=6)