# The 20 year curse **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139 "2000-12-05T15:07:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/1 "2000-12-05T15:07:10Z")
I know there was supposed to be a curse where every president elected in a year 60-80-00 would die in office. I also know Reagan foiled this but only by minutes. You think this president might get shot also? What happens if Bush dies, then Cheney dies? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/2 "2000-12-05T15:18:54Z")
Thomas Jefferson was elected in 1800 and nothing happened to him. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/3 "2000-12-05T15:20:26Z")
Very funny. He’s still alive then? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/4 "2000-12-05T15:34:28Z")
The “curse” is actually a little more precise than that: every president elected in a year ending with ‘0’ _since 1840_ has died in office. The list is as follows: 1840: William Henry Harrison (pneumonia) 1860: Abraham Lincoln (assassinated) 1880: James Garfield (assassinated) 1900: William McKinley (assassinated) 1920: Warren Harding (stroke, I think) 1940: Franklin D. Roosevelt (another stroke) 1960: John F. Kennedy (assassinated) Then, of course, the chain is broken 140 years later by Ronald Reagan. _If_ Bush and Cheney both die in office, then of course the Speaker of the House becomes president, according to procedural rules - is this set up in the Constitution? Anyone? Help me out here. At this point, AFAIK, that would be Dennis Hastert, the guy who replaced Newt. Will Bush die in office? I can’t say as I honestly wish for the death of any man, much as I may find him severely distasteful personally and politically. But I wouldn’t shed a tear if the curse chose to visit him, say, with an unending series of highly painful and mildly infected paper cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/5 "2000-12-05T15:53:54Z")
> [@](#): > > 1880: James Garfield (assassinated) An autopsy revealed that Garfield probably would have survived the bullet wound had the doctors done _nothing_. It was unsanitary medical procedures that from all the poking, prodding, digging and spelunking for the bullet (which they never found while he was alive) that led to the infections that ended his life **a month** after he had been shot. ---
**Author:** ![muppetsoup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aca169/32.png) [@muppetsoup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muppetsoup)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/6 "2000-12-05T16:24:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mjollnir \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > 1880: James Garfield (assassinated) > > An autopsy revealed that Garfield probably would have survived the bullet wound had the doctors done _nothing_. It was unsanitary medical procedures that from all the poking, prodding, digging and spelunking for the bullet (which they never found while he was alive) that led to the infections that ended his life **a month** after he had been shot. \*\* I have heard the same argument for Lincoln, also…without the whole month part. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/7 "2000-12-05T17:04:31Z")
Lincoln was shot in the head, and died a few hours later without ever regaining conscousness. It’s doubtful that he could have been saved. Frankly, I think both Cheney and Lieberman would make better presidents than their running mates. Anyone else feel like this? I’m a bit concerned for Lieberman, though. Given how bad things are in the Middle East, I woudn’t be a bit surprised if he gets assassinated by a Muslim fundie. I don’t think Cheney will die anytime soon. He’s had small heart attacks before, so everyone knows to watch for them. It’s the guys that have never had any trouble before that just keel over dead one day. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/8 "2000-12-05T17:19:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mjollnir \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > 1880: James Garfield (assassinated) > > An autopsy revealed that Garfield probably would have survived the bullet wound had the doctors done _nothing_. It was unsanitary medical procedures that from all the poking, prodding, digging and spelunking for the bullet (which they never found while he was alive) that led to the infections that ended his life **a month** after he had been shot. \*\* Even worse than that. Garfield was shot on July 2, 1881, and died September 19, 2 [sup]1[/sup]/[sub]2[/sub] months later. Alexander Graham Bell tried to help the doctors with his new metal detector. Trouble was, they didn’t take Garfield off of the bed with metal springs. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/9 "2000-12-05T19:15:08Z")
Anyone who seriously believes in such “curses” should also consider this: On the one hand, it does appear that Reagan disproved the curse’s existence. On the other hand, it is very well known that Nancy consulted astrologers when making his appointments. A curse is not necessarily invincible. It might simply create a strong predisposition to certain events. Perhaps by working within the “rules” of such phenomena, Reagan was able to overcome that predisposition. Not that I believe in any of this, but it’s rather interesting… ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/10 "2000-12-05T19:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Keeve \* > \*\*Anyone who seriously believes in such “curses” should also consider this: > > On the one hand, it does appear that Reagan disproved the curse’s existence. \*\* Nah. The Indian chief who handed down the curse a century and a half earlier just hadn’t accounted for the advances of modern medicine. ---
**Author:** ![peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/11 "2000-12-05T19:29:14Z")
Were there any other presidents elected in “non-0” years, who died in office? Diceman, I do not Al Gore will be a better president. He is concerned only with himself and his ego, wants us to spend our loves countin and recounting votes, because he thinks that the rules were wrong. I’d like to have a president who puts the country a bit higher. But if you think he is better, you deserve him. After all, he invented the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![slackerboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e480ec/32.png) [@slackerboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackerboss)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/12 "2000-12-05T19:39:37Z")
quote: Posted by: Olentzero If Bush and Cheney both die in office, then of course the Speaker of the House becomes president, according to procedural rules - is this set up in the Constitution? Anyone? Help me out here. The 25th amendment spells out how the line of succusion goes. [http://www.bigduck.com/AMMENDM.html](http://www.bigduck.com/AMMENDM.html) here is a copy of the amendments. It also goes into information about if the president can not continue being the president, sick, mentelly ill, etc. I hope this helps ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/13 "2000-12-05T20:22:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by peace_ > \*\*Were there any other presidents elected in “non-0” years, who died in office? \*\* Zachary Taylor, elected in 1848, died in office 1850. The Master has spoken on this very subject [here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_030.html). That’s what, 8 out of 42? Now I don’t wanna be president any more. What other job in the U.S. has a 19% mortality rate? Additionally, in the search to answer **peace** ’s question, I find that Uncle Cecil has also [answered](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_133.html) **vanilla** ’s question. So there you have it. ---
**Author:** ![hardhead365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/71c47a/32.png) [@hardhead365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardhead365)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/14 "2000-12-05T20:26:32Z")
Re: muppetsoup Civil War Times Illustrated had an article on the treatment of Lincoln’s head wound about 2 or 3 years ago (I looked and the article is not one of those they have put on the net ☹ ) The jist of the article was that Linclon may have survived IF a battlefield experienced surgeon had treated him. By that time the experienced surgeon knew that the best treatment (for the time) was to put a bandage on the external wound and leave it alone. Instead the treating surgeon was a “senior officer” and his first action was to stick his dirty finger in the wound. Next he fished around “unsuccessfully” with a probe to see if he could find the bullet. The article goes into tests that were done recently that determined that just putting his finger into the wound probably would have raised the intercranial pressure enough to cause further damage. Reminds me somewhat of the autopsy on President Kennedy, RHIP. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2000, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/15 "2000-12-05T21:08:24Z")
It’s called Tecumseh’s curse, since supposedly it was a curse laid by the Indian leder Tecumseh on his enemy William Henry Harrison. We discussed this in an earlier thread. [The 20 year curse](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=41259). I stand by my post in that thread > [@](#): > > Tecumseh’s Curse was not recognized as such in the early years. People in 1860 didn’t go around saying, “Well, everybody elected in 20-year increments is going to die in office.” My point is that data used to formulate the hypothesis cannot be used to prove the hypothesis. Suppose Tecumseh’s Curse was first hypothesized in 1950 (I don’t know when it was really, but I’d be interested in learning). Up to that time, all the data would be consistent with the hypothesis (six out of six since 1840). But since 1950, only 50% of the new data are consistent with the hypothesis (one out of two since 1950). > > Btw, here is [Cecil’s column on Tecumseh’s curse](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_082.html), in he says that in an 1836 play, Tecumseh is said to be “cursing the white man as he lay dying.” I doubt very much the curse was the line, “You, and everyone after you who is elected to the Presidency in years evenly divisible by 20, will die in office.” ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2000, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-20-year-curse/44139/16 "2000-12-06T00:04:49Z")
**peace:** Where, exactly, did I say that I thought Gore would be a good president? I think Gore would make a terrible president. I mean, he worked with _Bill Clinton_ for Christ’s sake! I said that I think both Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman would probably make better candidates than the guys they’re paired with.