# The 2009 NFL free agency thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384 "2009-02-11T16:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/321 "2009-04-03T21:18:24Z")
> [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](#): > > Or Cincinnati. Very unlikely, even in light of the fact that the Bengals may very well shop Chad Ochostinko for draft picks. The Bengals don’t get into any more trouble than any other team. They had that one run of run-ins with the law in late 2005/into 2006 that was kinda comical, but many of those players are no longer with the team with the notable exception of Chris Henry, whom is one strike away from a lifetime NFL ban and hasn’t gotten into any trouble in a couple years. It’s a media creation, this perception that the Bengals are a bunch of criminals, and the Bengals are the easy target of jokes because they have sucked for so long, but it isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/322 "2009-04-03T21:28:13Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > As the “proud” bottom dweller of the NFC North, our division has no room to brag. Let’s cave some skulls in and go back to destroying the pussy NFC East and then we can talk shit, k? Logically I hear you…but, but…when it comes to the Packers I have a scorched Earth policy. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/323 "2009-04-03T21:47:08Z")
Couple tangential thoughts. I looked up the old 2006 NFL Draft thread to read the discussion of Cutler and my high opinion of him (and **Hamlet** ’s hatred) and forgot that the Broncos traded a 1st and 3rd rounder in order to move up to get him. Probably doesn’t have much meaning since that was a different regime in Denver, but it’s interesting that the Bears gave two 1st and a 3rd for him. A little congruity there. Also, I wonder how this Plaxico news will impact the draft. The Giants were thought to be targeting a WR in the first round anyways but the release of Burress ensures it you’d think. If the WRs go where they are projected right now that would probably kill any chance of the Bears getting Kenny Britt in round 2. It might mean that none of the 2nd round worthy WRs are available when they are drafting, Robiskie, Derrick Williams. Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/324 "2009-04-03T22:09:43Z")
> [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](#): > > I completely agree. My opinion of Cutler soured immensely after this whole debacle. > > But… the guy can chuck a football. I post more often on the Chargers boards than I do here, and I can tell you that the majority of Bolts fans are generally unhappy with this deal. Why? Because for all his physical talents, Cutler is a just not a “winner.” He hasn’t had a winning season since high school, he’s choked in the clutch numerous times (check out his last 2 drives of the Hochuli game for a great example) and Philip Rivers was in his head in a way I’ve never seen out of 2 pro athletes before. He may have a stronger arm than Elway, but I’d have been thrilled to see him line up against Rivers twice a year for the next decade because that story always ended the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/325 "2009-04-03T22:16:22Z")
Did anyone watch the McDaniels presser when he was talking about the deal? Really unimpressive. I don’t see this guy gaining the respect of anyone in a locker room. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Spoonful_of_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/326 "2009-04-03T23:44:19Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > I post more often on the Chargers boards than I do here, and I can tell you that the majority of Bolts fans are generally unhappy with this deal. Why? Because for all his physical talents, Cutler is a just not a “winner.” He hasn’t had a winning season since high school, he’s choked in the clutch numerous times (check out his last 2 drives of the Hochuli game for a great example) and Philip Rivers was in his head in a way I’ve never seen out of 2 pro athletes before. He may have a stronger arm than Elway, but I’d have been thrilled to see him line up against Rivers twice a year for the next decade because that story always ended the same way. That logic makes no sense to me. In a 22 man team, nobody is a winner or loser individually. Cutler’s TEAMS haven’t classically been winners, but that’s hardly his fault. Cutler was 13-1 when his defense held opponents to 21 points or less. And he played for Vanderbilt, which has collegiate football power written all over it. Once the defense improved and Whiny Bitch evolves to Slightly Overinflated Ego..Guy, that story would’ve had a much happier ending. For me. As is.. well.. I’ll STILL take Orton over Rivers, if given the choice. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/327 "2009-04-04T04:00:53Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > I post more often on the Chargers boards than I do here, and I can tell you that the majority of Bolts fans are generally unhappy with this deal. Why? Because for all his physical talents, Cutler is a just not a “winner.” He hasn’t had a winning season since high school, he’s choked in the clutch numerous times (check out his last 2 drives of the Hochuli game for a great example) and Philip Rivers was in his head in a way I’ve never seen out of 2 pro athletes before. He may have a stronger arm than Elway, but I’d have been thrilled to see him line up against Rivers twice a year for the next decade because that story always ended the same way. The Chargers have the strongest top-to-bottom roster in the league. The Broncos have like 5 good players and a whole bunch of who-dats. I’d take Cutler over Rivers, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/328 "2009-04-04T15:00:45Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Logically I hear you…but, but…when it comes to the Packers I have a scorched Earth policy. So do I (and lately, the Vikings fans have been the most annoying to me for some reason), but let’s get our house in order and get the Black and Blue Division back and then talk shit. **BoltEater** : Don’t forget, Cutler played at Vanderbilt. Not exactly a football powerhouse. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/329 "2009-04-04T21:44:32Z")
> [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](#): > > IMO both sides handled this situation like 3rd graders. Cutler was so wrapped up in himself that the mere possibility that anyone would even _consider_ trading him sent him into a temper tantrum. My only defense is that he’s still very young. He’ll grow out of his Whiny Bitchdom, mark my words. McDaniels tried to overcompensate for his age and lack of experience and show everyone that he is the boss and will _not_ be pushed around by players. What he doesn’t see is that the dickhead “my way or the highway” approach does not earn you respect. Any experienced coach would’ve sat Jay down and said yes, we tried to trade you, it’s a business and I apologize if it hurt you. But I do respect what you can do and now I really want to move forward with you at the helm. He would’ve known enough, especially with one as sensitive as Cutler turned out to be, to show a bit of love and stroke the ego a bit, while still maintaining that air of leadership. Instead he not only lied to him, but was a complete dick about it and and lost us our franchise QB. Dead-on. Yes, Cutler is an immature asshole … but so are half the players in the NFL. He’s got a huge ego that covers up deep insecurity … just like half the players in the NFL. A huge part of a head coach’s fricking job is to deal effectively with immature, egotistical, insecure assholes. Hate say this to you, McDaniels _is_ going to draft a QB, this year or the next. The whole reason he wanted Cassell was because he wanted “his guy.” If he’s uninterested in working with a QB as young and as talented as Cutler, is he really going to be OK trying to win with retreads like Orton and Simms? Hell, no. Sorry, man, but unless you draft a good QB in the next 1-3 years, the consistient quality of the Shanahan era will be a memory. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/330 "2009-04-04T22:25:25Z")
What I don’t understand is how Cutler found out about all this. Why can’t a coach or GM make a simple phone call/inquiry and try to negotiate a trade behind the scenes? ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/331 "2009-04-04T22:32:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What I don’t understand is how Cutler found out about all this. Why can’t a coach or GM make a simple phone call/inquiry and try to negotiate a trade behind the scenes? I have a pet theory that either Belichick or Pioli let it leak intentionally in order to fuck with McDaniels. Belichick because he’s an asshole and has a history of pissing on his former subordinates and Pioli because he’s in the same division and would benefit from any rift or drama in Denver. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/332 "2009-04-04T22:38:07Z")
To change the topic a little, did any of you get a chance to watch Orlando Pace much last season? I don’t know if I watched a single Rams game and I’m curious how much Pace has left in the tank. The injury history was troubling but he stayed on the field last year, was he effective? That team and offense was so poor that it’s tough to gauge what his impact was. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Spoonful_of_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/333 "2009-04-04T22:39:25Z")
And therein lies the problem that is McDaniels. He’s a frightened little boy trying to prove that he belongs in the man’s game. He comes in, guns a-blazing, all huffed up and ready to take the NFL by the short n’ curlies. The problem is that he can’t do anything by himself. He either fails to recognize the importance of the support of his team and fans or he’s ignorant enough to believe that they will actually buy and respect his totalitarian overcompensation. Either he matures in a hurry or he’s going to find himself all alone on the sidelines of a losing team. Eventually even Pat Bowlen will see through his macho act and cut him loose. Maybe Al Davis will be hiring. And though I don’t believe Orton to be anything more than a bridge at best, I pray to the football powers that be that McDaniels doesn’t do anything other than fix our porous defense in this draft. I know his ego will want to prove he can make a QB out of nothingness a 'la Brady (jury is still out on Cassel. One season does not a legend make) but I don’t see Sanchez or Stafford as that answer. All we’ll do is throw big money at mediocrity as Cutler and Shanny share a beer and laugh it up. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Spoonful_of_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/334 "2009-04-04T22:45:11Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What I don’t understand is how Cutler found out about all this. Why can’t a coach or GM make a simple phone call/inquiry and try to negotiate a trade behind the scenes? If someone sees an opportunity to create disharmony with a rival team, why not take it? I’m certain someone in the Chiefs organization wanted to drive a wedge in the already sizable gap between Cutler and the Bronco organization. He was already upset that we fired Shanny and his QB coach, Jeremy Bates. This was the spark that set the house a-blazin. I think the bulk of the problem was the media hype. Both Cutler and McDaniels suddenly had the eyes of the world on them and neither were secure enough in themselves to do anything but try to protect a fragile image. I’m telling you… 3rd graders. And the media ate it up. The more pissed off they could make everyone involved, the better the story. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Spoonful_of_Awesome)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/335 "2009-04-04T22:48:41Z")
I actually think Orlando Pace is a tremendous pick up. I haven’t watched much Ram football but even if he is habitually injured and not at peak performance, his experience and intensity will do nothing but improve a line in desperate need of some passion. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/336 "2009-04-04T23:13:19Z")
> [@A\_Spoonful\_of\_Awesome](#): > > I actually think Orlando Pace is a tremendous pick up. I haven’t watched much Ram football but even if he is habitually injured and not at peak performance, his experience and intensity will do nothing but improve a line in desperate need of some passion. I feel pretty good about it, they are paying him a pretty nice chunk of change so you’d have to hope that the Bears scouts and trainers are confident in what they are getting. The risk is that this is a Lovie directed move based more on past relationships and misplaced loyalty. The Bears do have options and flexibility with Williams, Omiyale and Schafer able to play the position but they are unproven at best. I just hope we’re still getting a guy who can dominate 90% of the people he faces on an island. It would be nice if perhaps he can offer some tutelage to Williams too for the future, lord knows he might be a bust and moving him to RT might be a disaster this season. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/337 "2009-04-05T04:37:40Z")
Can I just say that Brian Dawkins is one of the classiest players in the NFL? > [@](#): > > He said he has decided what he will do with the two tickets each visiting player gets for an away game. They won’t go to a high school player this time, but to a former Eagles game-day employee, Dan Leone, who was fired by the team after he vented his displeasure over the Birds losing Dawkins to Denver on his Facebook page. > > "I thought it’d be a good gesture,‘’ Dawkins said. "Had I not . . . signed with Denver, that guy would still have his job. Damn, I’m gonna miss #20. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/338 "2009-04-05T04:53:27Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > As the “proud” bottom dweller of the NFC North, our division has no room to brag. Let’s cave some skulls in and go back to destroying the pussy NFC East and then we can talk shit, k? Good luck with that. > [@Omni](#): > > To change the topic a little, did any of you get a chance to watch Orlando Pace much last season? I don’t know if I watched a single Rams game and I’m curious how much Pace has left in the tank. The injury history was troubling but he stayed on the field last year, was he effective? That team and offense was so poor that it’s tough to gauge what his impact was. Yeah, I saw him. He’s still really incredibly skilled. I’d be very worried about his run blocking, however. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/339 "2009-04-05T18:56:05Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Good luck with that. > > Yeah, I saw him. He’s still really incredibly skilled. I’d be very worried about his run blocking, however. Well, I never said it would be easy. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384/340 "2009-04-06T17:44:38Z")
[An interesting article in light of recent events.](http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2708_A_team_in_need_of_a_statistical_stimulus_plan.html) "Consider Team A. It averaged: ``` * 411.2 yards per game * 295.7 passing yards per game * 115.6 rushing yards per game * An inspiring 6.22 yards per offensive play over the course of an entire season. ``` Now Consider Team B. It averaged: ``` * 395.8 yards per game * 279.4 passing yards per game * 116.4 rushing yards per game * An inspiring 6.21 yards per offensive play over the course of an entire season. ``` Given the highly comparable offensive numbers – a slight but hardly significant edge to Team A in most categories – you’d assume that Team A was slightly more productive on offense than Team B, but not by much. After all, each snap by each team yielded nearly the same exact gain of 6.2 yards. We’d make that same assumption, too. But both of us would be wrong." Find out who the teams are and their opinion on the why. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2009-nfl-free-agency-thread/485384.md?page=18)