# The 2013 Reid Nuclear option and the current dilemma for the Democrats **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 13, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679 "2022-01-13T03:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/81 "2022-01-14T14:58:09Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The practical effect of a return to the talking filibuster depends on the resolve of individuals in the Senate, something which hasn’t been tested since 1970. And that is why a talking filibuster is just as bad an idea is a procedural filibuster. We don’t need trials by combat; we don’t need legislation by marathon. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/82 "2022-01-14T14:59:19Z")
I look at it in the complete opposite light. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/83 "2022-01-14T15:00:12Z")
Max, I’m getting a bit confused if your hangup is that you want the rules to be followed or if you think there is inherent value in the talking filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/84 "2022-01-14T15:01:09Z")
Both: my hangup is that I want rules to be followed, (at least until there is no other option), but I also think there is value in a talking filibuster. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/85 "2022-01-14T15:03:43Z")
> [@SpacemanSpiff\_II](#): > > If the Democrats become a minority in the Senate, their enthusiasm for killing the filibuster will diminish considerably, certainly to the point where it’s extremely unlikely to be any sort of litmus test for their candidates (even in the unlikely event that it would otherwise be so). That was true in the past, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it weren’t true now. The filibuster is a structural bias in favor of smaller parties. So it helps the Republican Party, but not the Democratic Party. Of course, other structural biases help the Republican Party enough that sometimes the Democrats are a minority in a legislature, but it’s becoming very apparent that the filibuster is not helpful. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/86 "2022-01-14T15:11:31Z")
OK fair enough, I basically agree with Pleonast that it doesn’t really have inherent value but that might be a discussion for another day. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/87 "2022-01-14T15:12:15Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Personally, I think it’s a bad idea, but if the Dems do this it will be interesting to see how they (and folks advocating for it in this thread) react later on when they could use it but it’s gone. Someday, the Republicans will be in the majority again and trying to ram through something that the Dems don’t want, and one of the tools allowing them to do that will be gone or further eroded such that they won’t be able to do anything about it. Yea, this reminds me of an old saying: “Be careful what you wish for. It might come true.” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/88 "2022-01-14T15:15:23Z")
I have no doubt that if a Republican majority wanted to ram something through, they would not hesitate to nuke the filibuster. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/89 "2022-01-14T20:23:40Z")
I would then be telling their advocates that it’s a bad idea and they are being short-sighted as well. It’s ironic how seemingly neither side can see this when they have the power to change things…that, eventually, the worm will turn and it will be them in the minority position with the other party trying to ram something through and no ability to do anything about it because you shot yourself in the foot when and took that tool down. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/90 "2022-01-15T22:00:19Z")
The Democrats hate the filibuster so much, and think Russians are so dangerous, that they just used the filibuster to block sanctions against Russia: > [@](#): > > Senate Democrats on Thursday blocked legislation from Sen. [Ted Cruz](https://thehill.com/people/ted-cruz) (R-Texas) to slap sanctions on businesses tied to the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a win for the Biden administration, which believes such sanctions could damage relations with Germany. > > Senators voted 55-44 on Cruz’s legislation, _falling short of the 60 votes needed for it to pass._ Democratic Sens. [Tammy Baldwin](https://thehill.com/people/tammy-baldwin) (Wis.), [Catherine Cortez Masto](https://thehill.com/people/catherine-cortez-masto) (Nev.), [Maggie Hassan](https://thehill.com/people/margaret-maggie-hassan) (N.H.), [Mark Kelly](https://thehill.com/people/mark-kelly) (Ariz.), [Jacky Rosen](https://thehill.com/people/jacklyn-jacky-rosen-0) (Nev.) and [Raphael Warnock](https://thehill.com/people/raphael-warnock) (Ga.) joined every Republican save Sen. [Rand Paul](https://thehill.com/people/rand-paul) (R-Ky.) in voting for the bill. If the filibuster was gone, the Republicans and five moderate Democrats would have defeated the Biden administration. Are you sure that’s what you want? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/91 "2022-01-15T22:04:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If the filibuster was gone, the Republicans and five moderate Democrats would have defeated the Biden administration. Take it you’ve never heard of a veto? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/92 "2022-01-15T22:22:59Z")
Yeah, Biden could veto it. But the filibuster protected him from having to domso and looking weak to Putin. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/93 "2022-01-15T22:54:37Z")
Okay, so you just moved the goalposts halfway 'round the world on that one. There is also the fact that it would almost certainly never pass the House. That would also “protect” him. Not to mention the fact that if there were no filibuster, the Dems who voted along with the Republicans would have been much less likely to, as currently, that was more or less a meaningless vote. If there had actually been consequence to it, they may very well have voted differently. Then there is the odd idea that using the veto would make him look weak to Putin, that’s something you just pulled out of thin air. What even are you trying to go with that? Since you got so very much wrong and have shown how very little you understand about the US govt, I won’t bother to comment on your rather vapid and silly commentary that you tried to poison the well with in your post, but speaking of things that make one look weak, that was a pretty weak attempt on your part. BTW, is there a particular reason that you put up that quote without linking to where you got it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/94 "2022-01-16T00:06:22Z")
Yes, this is what I want. Democratic priorities passing in exchange for a few things like this (which would likely be vetoed anyway) would be way, way worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679/95 "2022-01-17T16:59:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Okay, so you just moved the goalposts halfway 'round the world on that one. Agreed. His post is totally unconvincing as a criticism of the filibuster. Aside, **Sam\_Stone** was quoting from _[The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/589636-dems-block-cruzs-nord-stream-2-sanctions-bill)_. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2013-reid-nuclear-option-and-the-current-dilemma-for-the-democrats/957679.md?page=4)