# The 2016 Democratic Candidates **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 20, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400 "2015-01-20T18:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/361 "2015-06-25T15:33:18Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > But gosh. Slavery is just so complicated! IT’S SO COMPLICATED! The Confederate flag has been misused and abused by racists to sully the fact that the Confederate flag was created by racists in their war to protect slavery. He’s also doubled- down on his statements today. > [@](#): > > “I want you to know how much I appreciate your email, and how much I respect your journey. You and I are the same age. A lot has changed in our lifetimes. For me, as a child of the South I was very lucky to grow up in the military, which despite its flaws was the first institution that was racially integrated. > > Here are my thoughts. The Confederate battle flag was misused and abused, there is no question about this. But I am deeply concerned that the larger politics of the war are being put onto the backs of the soldiers who were called upon to fight it — which, by the way, caused more than 1/3 of them to lose their lives. Two of my ancestors died in that endeavor, one in Virginia and one in Tennessee. Neither of them owned slaves and one of them, from the far mountains of SW Virginia, had never seen one, I’m sure. You mention Vietnam. I fought there and was wounded. My son fought in Iraq. Neither of these wars are being remembered with a great deal of respect, but that does not mean we should wrongly characterize the service of people who fought there. BTW one of my great-grandfathers fought for the Union as a sergeant in the Kentucky infantry. I respect him in the same manner. > According to John Hope Franklin, probably the most eminent Black historian in American history, only five percent of the whites in the South owned slaves in 1860, and only about 25 percent had any personal or economic connection to the institution of slavery. As a Richmond native, I’m sure those percentages were higher in your area. But the irony to me has always been trying to figure out what this looked like from the soldiers’ perspective, not the politicians. Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland and Delaware all were slave states and stayed in the Union. Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation did not include the slave owners in those states. The writer in me tries to imagine what it must have been like for the typical soldier to sort out all of these things. This has always led me to deplore the institution of slavery but to try to understand those who served. > > Again, I very much appreciate your letter and I respect your viewpoint.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/362 "2015-06-25T15:41:59Z")
> [@RandMcnally](#): > > The Confederate flag has been misused and abused by racists to sully the fact that the Confederate flag was created by racists in their war to protect slavery. And those poor soldiers had never even seen a slave, because slaves were really rare in Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/363 "2015-06-25T15:53:06Z")
Slavery was fucking evil, which to my mind makes the Confederate flag right on par with the Nazi flag. I say this as a Southerner. My ancestors made mistakes, they also did good things. I don’t have to enshrine their mistakes, any more than I have to downplay the good things they did. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/364 "2015-06-25T19:38:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > More on that: [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/jim-webb-confederate-flag-stance-119379.html](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/jim-webb-confederate-flag-stance-119379.html) > [@](#): > > This is a time for us to come together, and to recognize once more that our complex multicultural society is founded on the principle of mutual respect. The man is clueless. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/365 "2015-06-25T19:46:02Z")
Well, Webb is a historian at heart, and one deeply proud of his ancestors’ military service, but he’s showing himself to be politically tone-deaf for 2015, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/366 "2015-06-25T21:04:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, Webb is a historian at heart, and one deeply proud of his ancestors’ military service, but he’s showing himself to be politically tone-deaf for 2015, to say the least. Apparently the letter he posted was to an African-American supporter. For one, I honestly can’t imagine how he would think it’s be a good idea to offer excuses for the Cobfederacy to a Black person. Relatedly, I think it’s be difficult to rally Black voters, who solidly vote Democrat, behind someone who wants to honor those who fought to continue the enslavement of Black people. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/367 "2015-06-26T02:31:52Z")
Well, it is actually complicated now that you bring that up. Was the union fighting to free the slaves? No. Was Abraham Lincoln going to end slavery in the South had there been no war? No. Does this hurt Jim Webb? No, because he was always the white male Democrat’s Democrat. If he tried to go all liberal on race issues then he’d lose his base of support, such as it is. And he’d be a flip-flopper. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/368 "2015-06-26T02:32:50Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, it is actually complicated now that you bring that up. Was the union fighting to free the slaves? No. Was Abraham Lincoln going to end slavery in the South had there been no war? No. > > Does this hurt Jim Webb? No, because he was always the white male Democrat’s Democrat. If he tried to go all liberal on race issues then he’d lose his base of support, such as it is. And he’d be a flip-flopper. I say you’re Bill Krystol and I claim my $5! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/369 "2015-06-26T03:11:27Z")
Well, I do agree that the Confederate flag should be removed from government buildings, although it should remain at Confederate cemetaries and museums. But for whatever reasons, we chose to forgive the Confederate leaders and people who joined the Confederate armies, despite having laid down hundreds of thousands of lives to defeat them. I’m not inclined to substitute our 21st century “wisdom” for the wisdom of the men who actually freed the slaves and restored our union. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/370 "2015-06-26T11:33:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, it is actually complicated now that you bring that up. Was the union fighting to free the slaves? No. Was Abraham Lincoln going to end slavery in the South had there been no war? No. > > Does this hurt Jim Webb? No, because he was always the white male Democrat’s Democrat. If he tried to go all liberal on race issues then he’d lose his base of support, such as it is. And he’d be a flip-flopper. It hurt’s Jim Webb because lots of white male Democrats think displaying the Confederate flag is extremely obnoxious and have no interest in defending it (or supporting someone who defends it). In my opinion at least. I’m definitely less likely to support Webb based on this statement. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/371 "2015-06-26T11:59:43Z")
Then you must not have known much about Webb prior to this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/372 "2015-06-26T12:13:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then you must not have known much about Webb prior to this. I didn’t know his views about the Confederate flag (or the Confederacy), and perhaps I should have. My point was to refute your point about white male Democrats – I believe you continue to misunderstand how real world Democrats choose candidates and are motivated by issues, and it’s very frustrating since there are so many here that you could defer to if you wanted to know something about how they (we) think. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/373 "2015-07-02T22:33:43Z")
Jim Webb is officially in, but I can’t see the point. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/374 "2015-07-02T23:08:21Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Jim Webb is officially in, but I can’t see the point. SOMEONE has to represent the strong-on-defense, weak-on-climate-change, loves-them-some-Dixie-swastika demographic. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/375 "2015-07-02T23:10:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > SOMEONE has to represent the strong-on-defense, weak-on-climate-change, loves-them-some-Dixie-swastika demographic. _hangs head_ Sorry. I forgot. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/376 "2015-07-02T23:18:17Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > SOMEONE has to represent the strong-on-defense, weak-on-climate-change, loves-them-some-Dixie-swastika demographic. Yeah, I kinda liked him. But I’m Black. I can’t vote for a Confederate sympathizer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/377 "2015-07-02T23:43:37Z")
I don’t see what that has to do with you being black. I’m white, and I couldn’t vote for a Confederate sympathizer, either. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/378 "2015-07-02T23:52:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t see what that has to do with you being black. I’m white, and I couldn’t vote for a Confederate sympathizer, either. True, but it’s a tad more insulting listening to someone talk about how we should honor Confederate soldiers knowing that, at the time of the Civil War, your family was enslaved on a plantation in Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/379 "2015-07-04T04:05:39Z")
Actually, someone has to represent the majority of Americans: [http://pollingreport.com/race.htm](http://pollingreport.com/race.htm) Webb’s views may put him outside the Democratic mainstream, but well within the American mainstream. Every primary campaign needs a candidate for the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400/380 "2015-07-04T06:22:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > SOMEONE has to represent the strong-on-defense, weak-on-climate-change, loves-them-some-Dixie-swastika demographic. And also voted opposed the Iraq War from 2002, and consistently supported criminal justice reform. :rolleyes: > [@RandMcnally](#): > > Yeah, I kinda liked him. But I’m Black. I can’t vote for a Confederate sympathizer. > [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t see what that has to do with you being black. I’m white, and I couldn’t vote for a Confederate sympathizer, either. I disagree with Webb on the Confederate flag issue (as anyone following my recent posts will realize), but his position hardly makes him a “Confederate sympathizer” and I would say the flag is somewhere between the 200th and 300th most important issue facing the country right now. The majority of black Americans (as well as middle- and working-class Americans in general) will be infinitely better off under a Webb administration than under any “moderate” Republican one or a Chafee administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2016-democratic-candidates/710400.md?page=20)