# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/201 "2017-11-02T17:20:32Z")
Just a quick look seems to say that, while the standard deduction goes up by $5700, I lose $8000 worth of personal exemptions. Why, it’s almost as if this is bad for middle class people! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/202 "2017-11-02T17:31:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Just a quick look seems to say that, while the standard deduction goes up by $5700, I lose $8000 worth of personal exemptions. Why, it’s almost as if this is bad for middle class people! Just curious, which personal exemptions are you losing? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/203 "2017-11-02T17:53:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Just curious, which personal exemptions are you losing? According to the CNN article, this: Eliminates personal exemptions: Today you’re allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. The House bill eliminates that option. For families with three or more kids, that could mute if not negate any tax relief they might enjoy as a result of other provisions in the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/204 "2017-11-02T18:00:37Z")
Thank you. Newspapers weren’t linking to the full act. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/205 "2017-11-02T18:04:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > According to the CNN article, this: > > Eliminates personal exemptions: Today you’re allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. The House bill eliminates that option. > For families with three or more kids, that could mute if not negate any tax relief they might enjoy as a result of other provisions in the bill. Obviously, if you’ve already got three or more kids, that’s bad for you, but I’m not hugely sympathetic about the idea of subsidizing over-replacement-fertility families. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/206 "2017-11-02T18:07:18Z")
That may be, but I’m single with 1 dependent that I can claim. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/207 "2017-11-02T18:07:36Z")
nvm, answered. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/208 "2017-11-02T18:23:00Z")
I’m surprised there aren’t more giveaways to the ultra-rich: the only one I can see is eliminating the estate tax but that isn’t phased in right away. The major beneficiaries seem to be the upper-upper middle class and the moderately wealthy, who get a donut hole of a 4.5% lower bracket and elimination of the AMT. (And of course the major loser is the treasury but “deficits don’t matter” when your party is in charge I guess.) Are there corporate giveaways as well? I couldn’t find anything on what it does to the corporate tax rate, which is where the ultrarich could benefit as well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/209 "2017-11-02T18:34:12Z")
According to the TV, the corporate tax rate goes down significantly, which greatly helps the ultra-wealthy who can use dummy corps and similar pass-throughs to avoid higher individual rates on their income. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/210 "2017-11-02T19:06:21Z")
Doesn’t any organization categorize the “Typical” family - income, children, mortgage, etc - and then compare what they would pay in taxes with the old plan to what they would pay in taxes with the new plan? I also notice that most news stories mention the doubling of the standard deduction but fail to mention the loss of the personal exemptions. That seems like a big deal to me. Isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/211 "2017-11-02T19:48:10Z")
Just to throw my data in the mix, we file married, jointly, with no kids, and this is going to cost me another $1000 or so because of the removal of the personal exemptions. Mark ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/212 "2017-11-02T19:55:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > According to the CNN article, this: > > Eliminates personal exemptions: Today you’re allowed to claim a $4,050 personal exemption for yourself, your spouse and each of your dependents. The House bill eliminates that option. > For families with three or more kids, that could mute if not negate any tax relief they might enjoy as a result of other provisions in the bill. Sounds like a big “screw you” to Utah. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/213 "2017-11-02T20:15:17Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Sounds like a big “screw you” to Utah. As a Utahn, I kind of felt the same way. Senator Lee had been pushing hard for the child credit to be increased, and it was, but I wonder what he thinks of the removal of the personal exemptions. I haven’t yet figured out if I’d personally come out ahead or behind with this plan. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/214 "2017-11-02T20:17:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As a Utahn, I kind of felt the same way. Senator Lee had been pushing hard for the child credit to be increased, and it was, but I wonder what he thinks of the removal of the personal exemptions. I haven’t yet figured out if I’d personally come out ahead or behind with this plan. Do you pay state or local taxes? The deductions for them have been removed as well. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/215 "2017-11-02T21:04:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Doesn’t any organization categorize the “Typical” family - income, children, mortgage, etc - and then compare what they would pay in taxes with the old plan to what they would pay in taxes with the new plan? > > I also notice that most news stories mention the doubling of the standard deduction but fail to mention the loss of the personal exemptions. That seems like a big deal to me. Isn’t it? The Tax Foundation provided [these example cases](https://files.taxfoundation.org/20171102155625/Fed-Filers.png). Tax cuts for everyone! ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/216 "2017-11-02T21:08:12Z")
Married filing jointly, two dependents. For the 2016 tax year, we took ~$26K in deductions (mortgage interest, property taxes, state income tax, and charitable contributions). Since that is just over double the current standard deduction, and we will lose some deductions, we’ll probably fall under the new standard deduction. The personal exemptions (4) reduced our taxable income by an additional ~$16K last year, which we will now pay taxes on at our marginal rate of 25%. So it will cost us ~$4K. We’re comfortable and can afford that, but it’s hardly a pittance. The reduction in rates for pass-through income from partnerships and LLCs is an abomination. I do not understand the GOP obsession with the estate tax. The exemption is already huge, so almost no estates pay it. The person “paying” the tax is already dead and can’t possibly feel the pain of it. The recipients of an inheritance did nothing to deserve it (I say this as someone who will probably inherit a couple of million dollars sometime in the next couple of decades). The double-taxation argument is completely bogus, given that large fortunes are often accumulated through capital gains, which are not taxed at death because of the stepped-up basis rule. (Does anyone know if the bill eliminates that to compensate at least a little for the loss in revnue?) The optics are terrible. I assume the bill will fail in the Senate in the current form. Or at least I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/217 "2017-11-02T21:14:45Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > Married filing jointly, two dependents. For the 2016 tax year, we took ~$26K in deductions (mortgage interest, property taxes, state income tax, and charitable contributions). Since that is just over double the current standard deduction, and we will lose some deductions, we’ll probably fall under the new standard deduction. The personal exemptions (4) reduced our taxable income by an additional ~$16K last year, which we will now pay taxes on at our marginal rate of 25%. So it will cost us ~$4K. We’re comfortable and can afford that, but it’s hardly a pittance. … Your situation sounds fairly similar to the Tax Foundation’s “Kavya and Nick” or “Sophie and Chad”, who, in their calculations end up $1k+ ahead. What is the Tax Foundation missing, or you doing differently that’s putting you $4k in the hole? > [@](#): > > [Our third household (Kavya and Nick) is a single-earner married couple with two kids, earning $85,000. We assume tax-deferred retirement savings of $5,500, and that the couple takes the standard deduction. They also benefit from the expanded child tax credits, and see an overall tax savings of 10 percent, from $10,614 to $9,542. This family’s after-tax income increases by 1.4 percent. > > Our fourth household (Sophie and Chad) is the first to take itemized deductions, which requires additional assumptions. We modeled a dual-income family with incomes of $95,000 and $70,000 respectively (for a total of $165,000), with two children. To derive the amount of deducible home mortgage interest, we assume a $340,000 home financed with a 30-year mortgage with 3.5 percent interest and 20 percent down. For deductible property tax, we assume an effective property tax rate of 1 percent. We also assume charitable contributions comprise 2.5 percent of income, and an effective state and local income tax rate of 5 percent. This couple has $20,000 in tax-deferred retirement contributions, and is ineligible for the child tax credit under current law, but could claim it under the House bill. These taxpayers see a 5 percent reduction in tax liability, from $27,815 to $26,443. Their after-tax income increases by 1 percent.]([https://taxfoundation.org/gets-tax-cut-tax-cuts-jobs-act/](https://taxfoundation.org/gets-tax-cut-tax-cuts-jobs-act/)) Perhaps you should itemize? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/218 "2017-11-02T21:29:26Z")
BTW, WaPo gave Senate Democrats four Pinnochios for their dishonest claims that most working-class families face a tax hike: > [@](#): > > [In their haste to condemn the GOP tax plan, Democrats have spread far and wide the false claim that families making less than $86,100 on average will face a hefty tax hike. Actually, it’s the opposite. Most families in that income range would get a tax cut. Any Democrat who spread this claim should delete their tweets and make clear they were in error.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/11/02/senate-democrats-falsely-claim-gop-tax-plan-will-raise-taxes-for-most-working-class-families/) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/219 "2017-11-02T21:42:04Z")
I’m pretty sure I’d pay more given the SALT limits. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/220 "2017-11-02T21:50:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your situation sounds fairly similar to the Tax Foundation’s “Kavya and Nick” or “Sophie and Chad”, who, in their calculations end up $1k+ ahead. What is the Tax Foundation missing, or you doing differently that’s putting you $4k in the hole? > > Perhaps you should itemize? The Kavya and Nick example is probably closest to a middle class income. But the fact they are currently taking the standard deduction means they likely have no mortgage interest or property tax and a state with no income tax. While Sophia and Chad are in the top 5% of household income. There are certainly valid numbers of people in those positions, but it cherry picks around the very common case of middle-class,Married with kids,a house in the first half of the mortgage, and a state with income tax; I’d like to see numbers on that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=12)