# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/241 "2017-11-03T12:20:01Z")
I save a few thousand dollars on this plan but I’m still against it, mostly because corporations and a lot of folks that can funnel their income through a business gets a huge frikking tax cut that we cannot afford. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/242 "2017-11-03T12:26:25Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > I do not understand the GOP obsession with the estate tax. The exemption is already huge, so almost no estates pay it. Almost nobody pays it - but clearly some people do. Anything that allows the rich to stay rich, one generation to the next. > [@RickG](#): > > I assume the bill will fail in the Senate in the current form. Or at least I hope so. There’s pressure on the GOP to accomplish a victory before the end of this year in advance of the 2018 campaign. Failure to do so would only give Bannon’s extremists more power to challenge GOP incumbents in primaries. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/243 "2017-11-03T12:35:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I save a few thousand dollars on this plan but I’m still against it, mostly because corporations and a lot of folks that can funnel their income through a business gets a huge frikking tax cut that we cannot afford. Remember when conservatives actually cared about things like fiscal responsibility? I’m sure they do, though I’m guessing when it comes time to finally do the cutting, they’ll just gut social security, medicare, and medicaid and continue funding the military and DHS. The cuts will start with Medicaid. What a lot of people may not realize is that a lot of Medicaid is used to support a lot of elderly and disabled white folk, who were actually at one time or another part of the white working class. Fun times we’re heading into. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/244 "2017-11-03T12:37:42Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > There’s pressure on the GOP to accomplish a victory before the end of this year in advance of the 2018 campaign. Failure to do so would only give Bannon’s extremists more power to challenge GOP incumbents in primaries. But in the fullness of the game, giving Trump the visual of a big win, hurts them as much in the future. The establishment folks have a tight line to walk, The better Trump looks the worse for them. But failing to deliver at all would piss of the big money and corporate donors and possibly pull away the only actual support they have. They have to try to make it look like an establishment win, or second a Trump failure, without looking like they’re trying to look like it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/245 "2017-11-03T12:53:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Here’s what they wrote in [their blog post](https://taxfoundation.org/gets-tax-cut-tax-cuts-jobs-act/): Yeah, I wasn’t adding in payroll taxes since they seem to be the same. I calculate $1848 for that first guy with the new plan, a savings of $242. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/246 "2017-11-03T13:06:30Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Remember when conservatives actually cared about things like fiscal responsibility?.. Yeah, seems as tho just a while back that there was an 8-year period that they insisted that any increased expenditure be accompanied by an equivalent reduction. Sure, a decade or 2 down the line, huge deficits will result in a windfall. And - if not - that will be someone else’s problem. So I’m against the proposal, as it seems to give outsized benefits to many quite wealthy individuals and corporations, while not reflecting any reasonable/meaningful reductions in spending. My personal impact is essentially superfluous. I’m also a little tired of trying to run hypothetical “what ifs.” Doing our taxes is a big enough pain in the ass, that I don’t want to do it throughout the year as a hobby. I am fortunate that I earn enough and am comfortable enough that I do not need my taxes cut. If they went up or down a few thousand, it wouldn’t meaningfully affect my current or future lifestyle. My best guess is that, living in an IL community with relatively high property taxes, I’d pay a couple grand more. I’d be happy to pay more, if it was part of a rational system aimed at any understandable goal other than “make the rich richer, and let the country sink further into the red.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/247 "2017-11-03T13:19:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not sure I fully understand their scorekeeping, but it sounds like they’re counting any deduction a company takes as a “tax subsidy”. That seems an awful lot like telling **Bone** and **John Mace** that their SALT deductions are ‘subsidies’ for their property in California. I suspect (but may yet be proven wrong) that they’d call bullshit on that characterization, and I’d tend to agree with them. > > Or did someone in the government really write GE a $4.7 billion check? I’m not averse to calling it a subsidy. My problem is not so much in eliminating those deductions, but in making such a drastic change like flipping a switch. People plan. They can’t plan when the tax code might change drastically one year to the next. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/248 "2017-11-03T13:45:03Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Almost nobody pays it - but clearly some people do. Anything that allows the rich to stay rich, one generation to the next. They win the war of propaganda by calling it a “death tax” or “double taxation”. Clearly the second is false, as many estates will include capital gains that have never been taxed once. And they lie about the estate tax threatening family farms, though most are exempt or largely exempt from the tax. This is nothing more than the wealthy using their connections to make their heirs get huge windfalls without working and without paying tax on it. Republicans never learn. They drafted a secret health bill without the proper hearings and without the opposition party being present. They’re doing the same with the tax code. It may well pass the House, though not in its current form. I see a much tougher path in the Senate as now a few Republicans are lame ducks with no elections to be concerned with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/249 "2017-11-03T13:51:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Republicans never learn… Yep. The only thing that surprises me about this bill is that there aren’t some abortion restrictions tacked onto it. The biggest bug in this bill, from a governance standpoint, is the increase in the deficit. That’s going to kill the bill all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/250 "2017-11-03T13:56:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, I wasn’t adding in payroll taxes since they seem to be the same. > > I calculate $1848 for that first guy with the new plan, a savings of $242. I wasn’t sure what the purpose of adding in payroll taxes, especially the employer side payroll taxes, in to the calculations. I don’t see how it made any difference, but I didn’t see a point, either. Anyway, my taxes are complicated, so I’ll need to ask my CPA for my exact situation, with minor restructuring, I may be actually able take advantage of the corporate pass-thru, but I don’t think I draw enough from my company that it would make a difference, but I do see that the student loan tax deduction will be going away, so that will hurt. I really don’t understand the reasoning on that one, it can’t make up that much of revenue, and it hurts people when they are starting out and are most vulnerable. Same as removing the ability to put away retirement monies pre-tax. If tax plans are meant to encourage activity, then this one is discouraging both higher education and retirement planning. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/251 "2017-11-03T14:02:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I wasn’t sure what the purpose of adding in payroll taxes, especially the employer side payroll taxes, in to the calculations. I don’t see how it made any difference, but I didn’t see a point, either. > > Anyway, my taxes are complicated, so I’ll need to ask my CPA for my exact situation, with minor restructuring, I may be actually able take advantage of the corporate pass-thru, but I don’t think I draw enough from my company that it would make a difference, but I do see that the student loan tax deduction will be going away, so that will hurt. I really don’t understand the reasoning on that one, it can’t make up that much of revenue, and it hurts people when they are starting out and are most vulnerable. Same as removing the ability to put away retirement monies pre-tax. > > If tax plans are meant to encourage activity, then this one is discouraging both higher education and retirement planning. Yeah, there seem to be a lot of deductions that are going away that aren’t being mentioned. And the doubling of the standard deduction is always mentioned, but very little mentioning of the removal of the personal exemptions. I’m not sure what will happen to my taxes, but I don’t want to save $200 a year and watch programs vital to poorer Americans disappear. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/252 "2017-11-03T14:09:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I wasn’t sure what the purpose of adding in payroll taxes, especially the employer side payroll taxes, in to the calculations. I don’t see how it made any difference, but I didn’t see a point, either. > > Anyway, my taxes are complicated, so I’ll need to ask my CPA for my exact situation, with minor restructuring, I may be actually able take advantage of the corporate pass-thru, but I don’t think I draw enough from my company that it would make a difference, but I do see that the student loan tax deduction will be going away, so that will hurt. I really don’t understand the reasoning on that one, it can’t make up that much of revenue, and it hurts people when they are starting out and are most vulnerable. Same as removing the ability to put away retirement monies pre-tax. > > If tax plans are meant to encourage activity, then this one is discouraging both higher education and retirement planning. Personally, I think tax plans should have one purpose and one purpose only-- raise the revenue necessary to run the government. I don’t want it to, as much as is humanly possible, encourage or discourage activity. But… you can’t just eliminate long standing deductions in the tax code without creating a certain amount of chaos in the economy, and that is what this bill is going to do. I’m all for eliminating the mortgage deduction, for example. Most other countries have done that. But, don’t eliminate it over night, goddammit!!! (Not saying this plan does that, specifically, but just using that as an example of some things it does do.) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/253 "2017-11-03T14:12:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Same as removing the ability to put away retirement monies pre-tax. They are leaving the current law about 401(k) plans the same. Is there another provision you’re talking about? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/254 "2017-11-03T14:26:04Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They are leaving the current law about 401(k) plans the same. Is there another provision you’re talking about? This was my question too. I didn’t think the plan changed retirement planning. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/255 "2017-11-03T14:39:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Personally, I think tax plans should have one purpose and one purpose only-- raise the revenue necessary to run the government. I don’t want it to, as much as is humanly possible, encourage or discourage activity. But… you can’t just eliminate long standing deductions in the tax code without creating a certain amount of chaos in the economy, and that is what this bill is going to do. I’m all for eliminating the mortgage deduction, for example. Most other countries have done that. But, don’t eliminate it over night, goddammit!!! (Not saying this plan does that, specifically, but just using that as an example of some things it does do.) I certainly agree with your overall perspective about the purpose of the tax code, but I don’t believe this bill is as abrupt as you do, apparently. For example, the estate tax doesn’t go away until 2024 (see page 168). It looks like the AMT elimination is phased in slowly, from 2019 to 2022 (see page 174). Granted, IANAL, or a CPA, so it’s entirely possible I’m misreading the rather cryptic legalese, but where did you get the impression this was all happening at once, “over night”? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/256 "2017-11-03T14:41:25Z")
The removal of the AMT seems to be flying under the radar, but that’s a huge deal to the wealthy. I read where instead of paying around $31 million in taxes due to the AMT in 2006 (the tax return leaked to press), Trump would have only paid $7 million. Granted, this doesn’t take into account the closing of “loopholes” this bill is advertised as having, but that’s an insane difference. I personally don’t care that the rich also get a tax break. I would just hope it was revenue neutral without expecting growth from the reduction and that the breaks were spread evenly. Seeing the poor getting a 0 - 1% break while those making over $250k getting like a 9% break is depressing. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/257 "2017-11-03T14:43:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Personally, I think tax plans should have one purpose and one purpose only-- raise the revenue necessary to run the government. I want it to, as much as is humanly possible, to encourage or discourage activity. But… you can’t just eliminate long standing deductions in the tax code without creating a certain amount of chaos in the economy, and that is what this bill is going to do. I’m all for eliminating the mortgage deduction, for example. Most other countries have done that. But, don’t eliminate it over night, goddammit!!! On the other hand, ripping off a bandaid is also a valid way of doing things. I would say that 99% of the changes I see are good. It’s generally a good idea for the costs associated with a choice to be born by those making the choice. If you want to buy a house, have a bunch of kids, have a lot of state services, etc. then you should pay for those. Same with the corporate tax. The amount of deductions are ridiculous and it’s good to simplify the system. Unfortunately, the 1% of the changes negate all the positives. There’s absolutely no need for the rich to have their taxes reduced. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/258 "2017-11-03T14:50:06Z")
Can this bill be passed using “reconciliation” (if that’s the correct term) where only a majority in the Senate is needed, and no filibuster is allowed? I’m hoping not. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/259 "2017-11-03T14:52:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can this bill be passed using “reconciliation” (if that’s the correct term) where only a majority in the Senate is needed, and no filibuster is allowed? I’m hoping not. IANAL, but I believe that’s their plan. I also believe that in order to utilize the “reconciliation” loophole, it has to reduce the deficit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/260 "2017-11-03T14:54:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > IANAL, but I believe that’s their plan. I also believe that in order to utilize the “reconciliation” loophole, it has to reduce the deficit. But doesn’t his plan increase the deficit? Or, does it have to not increase the deficit for X number of years, and this plan pushes the deficit increasing aspects out past X? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=14)