# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/441 "2017-11-09T17:23:42Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Not coincidentally I’m opposed to graduated income taxation because if there is to be an income tax, it should be the same if the income has the same characteristics. Which in my opinion makes no sense, because the utility of a dollar depends greatly on the income of the person we are talking about. Treating a dollar of income that would likely be used for subsistence the same as treating a dollar that would likely be used for luxury goods is not the same. And as has been pointed out, both the richest and poorest people in America are taxed the same on their first several thousand dollars of income: zero. It’s only when income rises to $50k, $150k, $500k, and so on, that THOSE dollars are taxed differently. Once more time to beat the dead horse: if you take the first $20 grand of income of Bill Gates, and you compare to the first $20 grand of income for some random gas station worker, that $20 grand is taxed at the same rate (subject to exemptions, etc). Why should Gates’ one hundred millionth dollar be treated like the gas attendant’s first dollar? Gates already enjoys his first dollar being taxed in the same was as the gas station worker’s first dollar. See, totally fair! > [@](#): > > You talk about the dollar given to the teenager being different than a dollar given to an employee, but these have different characteristics so it’s not surprising they are treated differently. And lunch money given to a kid to feed him/her is different than private islands and huge trust funds being passed down to a kid after the death of a parent. If someone doesn’t provide lunch for a child, in extreme cases they can go to jail for maltreatment of a minor. So there’s an imperative to provide lunch for children; there’s no imperative to provide huge trust funds. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/442 "2017-11-09T18:31:20Z")
I just realized another thing that’s been barely mentioned: The medical expense deduction will be eliminated. That affects only a minority of people, but those people are usually middle-class people going through a rough time. As someone I just read said,“It’s like making hurricane victims pay for tax cuts.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/443 "2017-11-09T18:51:29Z")
I want to apologize to all in the thread. At some point I introduced a “90%” figure. I should have written explicitly: “possibly hyperbolic wild-ass guess”. (… And in the same post I’d used “liars” to refer to top GOP pundits. :smack: ) _ **Mea culpa** _. What’s especially sad is that — as you’ll see from my record — _in the past_ I’ve largely been extremely factual, even writing “most probably” when I was only 90% sure of a number. (And I’m paranoid enough to respond poorly if I can fantasize that latches onto the guess might be a way to avoid debate.) So. My “90%” is exposed as “possibly hyperbolic wild-ass guess if considered as mean rather than maximum.” Mea Culpa. Excusez-moi merci. **ขอโทษ** Heard of the thousand-year flood? As partial excuse for my dishonorable conduct, let me confess that I and others think this present Administration is the thousand-year corruption event; that it has the Founding Fathers turning in their graves; :— wholesale theft on a scale reminiscent only of Russia, banana republics, and exploited colonies; — wholesale theft by greedy cronies, vested rentseekers, and the super-rich in general; — all led by the guy from Brooklyn himself famed as the quintessential greedy large-scale huckster! While the American public — or parts of it — just keep saying “Sell me more of that snake oil!” I realize that most Americans might characterize my view as “exaggerated or worse” … but _ **my Mother took me to see the movie "Majority of One."** _ 😃 The present Ryan agenda is a transfer from the poor to the rich; that, and staying in power, are the only real purpose of any of their edicts or bills. This tragedy, and the fact that many Americans seem blind to it, or even actively support it via some supply-side ideology, leads to emotional reactions in me: grief, frustration, irritation, etc. But I should learn to control my emotions. _ **Let me say I’m sorry again.** _ ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/444 "2017-11-09T19:01:54Z")
And I responded to it rudely. So I apologize. You and **Bone** are much classier than I am. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/445 "2017-11-09T19:04:08Z")
> [@](#): > > …Let me say I’m sorry again. No, we will _not_ let you say it. Therefore, you didn’t, even though you should have. You should walk to the nearest river, to perform the Ancient Albanian Ritual of Self-abasement, accompanied by a chorus of bitter virgins, intoning dirges of woe and humiliation. (Or you could simply declare it a matter of a principle. All such principles are equal, in that they are immune to the petty and mundane concerns of reason and fact. You’re welcome!) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/446 "2017-11-09T20:24:41Z")
[del]The Senate released their tax plan.[/del]\* I haven’t looked up the link to the actual plan yet. Here’s the story I’m reading: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-corporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-corporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html) Corporate tax cuts are delayed until 2019. Mortgage deduction stays pretty much as is. Adoption credit stays. Seven tax brackets, with the top bracket slightly reduced from 39.6 to 38.5 SALT deduction is gone (same as House) \*Looks like it’s not an official release. Just leakings. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/447 "2017-11-10T02:31:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve never understood the objection to “double taxation”. Where on Earth can you find anything that’s only taxed once? Most things have been taxed about fifty times. I earn some money doing my job: That’s taxed. I buy something with it at the store: That’s taxed. The store makes a profit on it: That’s taxed. The profits are distributed to the store’s shareholders: That’s taxed. The store owner hires a housekeeper or nanny: That’s taxed, and so on down the line. Every single time money changes hands, it’s taxed, even though it’s been taxed many times before, and will be taxed many times again. Why is or should this particular transfer be any different? The same money is being taxed twice without changing hands. If we taxed inheritances as income to the heir, then you wouldn’t have double taxation. Seems simpler. Inheritances are a windfall and should be taxed at some level. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/448 "2017-11-10T02:43:08Z")
A few more fun facts about the House tax plan that I am not sure have been mentioned here: (1) [They plan to tax the tuition waivers that grad students receive that have previously not been taxable](http://www.chronicle.com/article/How-the-GOP-Tax-Plan-Could/241702). (2) [A lot of the tax cuts for middle income taxpayers would apparently disappear over time](https://medium.com/whatever-source-derived/how-a-tax-cut-turns-into-a-tax-increase-960c32d1ba82) due to a combination of provisions expiring and not indexing (or less generous indexing) to inflation. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/449 "2017-11-10T03:18:07Z")
Lol yes I just saw the graduate tuition thing. It’s not uncommon for the school to pay a stipend of ~$25k and have something like a $40k tuition waiver. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/450 "2017-11-10T05:20:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. I think most taxes are like that, and for good reason. We tax “because the money is there” since we recognize the futility and potential danger (to the taxed person) if we tax “where there is no money to pay the tax”. > > If we had a flat tax, would you not want there to be a minimum people had to make before the tax kicked in? My support of such a tax hinges on that. Don’t tax the first “X” amount because a) the person needs to survive first and b) that’s not where the money is anyway. Every revenue neutral flat tax scheme I have seen has the middle class paying more since the rich pay far less. _Every one._ Why is it so hard to look at a chart which tells you how much your tax is if your taxable income is $x? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/451 "2017-11-10T05:52:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why is it so hard to look at a chart which tells you how much your tax is if your taxable income is $x? Yep. A flat tax would change the part of the current tax code that’s already simple and make it a tiny bit simpler. People who say they want a flat tax because of simplicity don’t know what they’re talking about, or are being misleading. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/452 "2017-11-10T08:50:02Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > [del]The Senate released their tax plan.[/del]\* I haven’t looked up the link to the actual plan yet. Here’s the story I’m reading: [Senate GOP plan would delay corporate tax cut, protect mortgage interest deduction - The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-corporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html) > > Corporate tax cuts are delayed until 2019. > Mortgage deduction stays pretty much as is. > Adoption credit stays. > Seven tax brackets, with the top bracket slightly reduced from 39.6 to 38.5 > SALT deduction is gone (same as House) > > \*Looks like it’s not an official release. Just leakings. The delay in the corporate tax cuts until 2019 is interesting. I’d guess a strategist figured out that was just long enough to keep the resulting cuts in social programs from being necessary until after the 2018 and 2020 elections, while still being able to claim any positive changes in the economy are a result of the cuts for the 2020 election. Not surprising, they took a similar tact in delaying the giant Medicaid cuts until after 2020 with their failed healthcare repeal bills. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/453 "2017-11-10T12:10:13Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > [del]The Senate released their tax plan.[/del]\* I haven’t looked up the link to the actual plan yet. Here’s the story I’m reading: [Senate GOP plan would delay corporate tax cut, protect mortgage interest deduction - The Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/senate-gop-plan-would-delay-corporate-tax-cut-until-2019-breaking-with-trump/2017/11/09/92ea07ec-c55d-11e7-afe9-4f60b5a6c4a0_story.html) > SALT deduction is gone (same as House) > > \*Looks like it’s not an official release. Just leakings. Not quite same as the House. House kept the Property Tax deduction, the Senate doesn’t. > **[Nine differences between the House and Senate tax plans — and how they...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/10/nine-differences-between-house-and-senate-tax-plans-and-how-they-would-affect-you/850263001/)** > > Senate tax-writers kept some deductions the House would eliminate, but also cut some the House kept in a scaled down way. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/454 "2017-11-10T14:18:27Z")
Has any “explanation” been given why $1.5 trillion is the magic number for increasing the debt? Looks like something is gonna be passed that costs me some and, gives a little to some needy, makes some wealthy wealthier, and accomplishes little (if anything) good. Gotta admit, tho - to the extent that I have some investments, those might rise in value. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/455 "2017-11-10T14:24:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why is it so hard to look at a chart which tells you how much your tax is if your taxable income is $x? Why would you think I was making an argument based on the idea that it is? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/456 "2017-11-10T14:27:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why is it so hard to look at a chart which tells you how much your tax is if your taxable income is $x? Why would you think I was making an argument based on the idea that it is? Frankly, having several tax rates is just about the least “offensive” thing I find about the tax code, though. And I’m in favor of significant cuts in federal spending (start with the DoD), so in my overall view of things, revenue neutrality would not be one of my goals. It might be necessary in the practicality of our political climate, but it’s not something I think is inherently a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/457 "2017-11-10T16:45:23Z")
In anticipation of the looming tax fiasco, I have liquidated my entire stock portfolio. Who want’s a beer? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/458 "2017-11-10T22:59:33Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Has any “explanation” been given why $1.5 trillion is the magic number for increasing the debt? It’s related to adhering to a couple of rules that will allow them to pass a bill in the Senate with a simple majority and not be subject to filibuster (ie. 60 votes). Look up “using budget reconciliation” if you want to know the gritty details. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/459 "2017-11-11T02:58:11Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > It’s related to adhering to a couple of rules that will allow them to pass a bill in the Senate with a simple majority and not be subject to filibuster (ie. 60 votes). > > Look up “using budget reconciliation” if you want to know the gritty details. Shoulda known - bullshit, instead of anything related to governing or that made any sort of sense. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/460 "2017-11-11T14:58:31Z")
The primary motive is, of course, to[keep the campaign money (er, “free speech”) flowing](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gary-cohn-tax-cut-ceos-donors_us_5a049571e4b0f76b05c4249e). > [@](#): > > “The most excited group out there are big CEOs, about our tax plan,” Gary Cohn, the leading White House economic adviser and former chief operating officer at Goldman Sachs, said in an interview with CNBC on Thursday. > … > “My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don’t ever call me again,’” Rep. Chris Collins (R-N.Y.), himself a millionaire, said on Tuesday. > … > “(Donors) would be mortified if we didn’t live up to what we’ve committed to on tax reform,” Steven Law, the head of Senate Conservatives Fund, a super PAC affiliated with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), told the New York Post. And the best rationalization they can come with for it is dat ol’ debbil Trickle Down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=24)