# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/821 "2017-12-14T22:13:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What are the other parts of it? Immediate PAYGO sequester cuts to Medicare, plus eradication of programs like the Social Services Block Grant that help people in need of LTSS stay in their homes. They are also balking at CHIP and extender funding, claiming pay-for issues tied to the tax bill. But what I assumed John Mace was referring to was the deficit impact and the threat to large health care programs. The Republicans have already stated that they intend to come back to cut Medicare and Medicaid (and Rubio says Social Security) in order to reduce the deficit that they are adding to. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/822 "2017-12-14T22:17:56Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Not sure if you have addressed this – does the bill’s impact on the deficit and debt concern you at all? Yes, it’s the thing I dislike the most about it. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/823 "2017-12-14T22:19:20Z")
The Republicans are also considering sun-setting the individual and family tax cuts a [year earlier](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/gop-consider-plan-to-make-individual-tax-cuts-expire-sooner-shrinking-plans-benefits-for-working-class/2017/12/14/9d83b1ac-e0f2-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_tax-plan-115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e53ab298c8dd) to help offset the costs. Enjoy them while they last, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/824 "2017-12-14T22:20:08Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > They are also balking at CHIP and extender funding, claiming pay-for issues tied to the tax bill. This is inartfully phrased at best, misleading at worst. Better to say that the tax bill is having some widespread implications for lots of health-related legislation. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/825 "2017-12-14T22:22:51Z")
> [@SingleMalt](#): > > The Republicans are also considering sun-setting the individual and family tax cuts a [year earlier](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/gop-consider-plan-to-make-individual-tax-cuts-expire-sooner-shrinking-plans-benefits-for-working-class/2017/12/14/9d83b1ac-e0f2-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_tax-plan-115pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.e53ab298c8dd) to help offset the costs. Enjoy them while they last, I guess. The frustrating thing about this is that many if not most of the people who vote for this thing will believe that those tax breaks will never sunset. Which means that they know that the deficit effects are understated and partially hidden by this gimmick. But they’ll vote for it and claim to care about things like government spending. Oh, don’t forget that they want to sharply increase military spending but decrease NDD spending. Because budgets. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/826 "2017-12-14T23:04:40Z")
Is the tax break on private jets still in there? That’s my most important indicator on whether or not it is a good tax cut. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/827 "2017-12-14T23:52:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Is the tax break on private jets still in there? That’s my most important indicator on whether or not it is a good tax cut. [Yep; it sure is](http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/the-gop-s-tax-breaks-for-the-private-jet-set). > [@](#): > > The tax scam that just passed the Senate and will now be merged with the House version in a conference committee expands these carve outs and special provisions for private jets. Meanwhile, the Republican budget plan, moving right behind the tax bill, nearly doubles the passenger facility fees that commercial passengers will pay on their tickets. > > A family of four, taking a trip with a layover, will pay an additional $32 per trip. Meanwhile, the already heavily subsidized private jet passengers will pay an extra zero dollars. And hey, with their track record, of course it’s prolly gonna stay there: > [@](#): > > The private jet lobby, our report shows, spent more than $56 million over the last decade to secure more than $1 billion in tax breaks. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/828 "2017-12-15T00:55:31Z")
That’s quite the ROI ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/829 "2017-12-15T01:59:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Yep; it sure is](http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/the-gop-s-tax-breaks-for-the-private-jet-set).And hey, with their track record, of course it’s prolly gonna stay there: Well that’s great! I don’t currently own a private jet, but I might one day. So I whole-heartedly support this tax bill! I also don’t fall into the highest tax bracket, but one day I might, so I’m glad they reduced it! Deficit and debt are only troubling when a Democrat is in office, so right now they don’t concern me. The amount of money spent to bomb brown people in caves thousands of miles away is necessary to maintain our country’s security. It’s way more important to bomb people that are no threat to our nation than it is to provide health care to our country’s poorest children, so again, the tax cut is awesome. It’s really a win all around! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/830 "2017-12-15T04:49:56Z")
You don’t even scratch the surface! [GOP tax cuts will strengthen our economy and drive Democrats crazy](http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/13/gop-tax-cuts-will-strengthen-our-economy-and-drive-democrats-crazy.html): > [@](#): > > The arguments that Democratic partisans make against Republican tax cuts make no sense. > > First, they say the poor are being robbed to give to the rich. But guess who pays most of the taxes our country takes in now? The top 1 percent of earners currently pay more in taxes than the bottom 90 percent combined. And the top 10 percent of income earners pay over 70 percent of all taxes. > > In today’s world, “fairness” is in the eye of whoever shouts the loudest. That’s not My idea of fair. What’s wrong with Democrats, anyway? > [@](#): > > Second, the Democrats have now become born-again deficit hawks, painting an additional $1.5 trillion added to the deficit over the next 10 years from this tax plan as causing certain harm. But they fail to take into account economic growth that would be created by tax cuts, which would reduce that deficit by increasing tax revenues. I’m scratching my head at why Democrats won’t take the massive economic growth this proposal will generate into account. I’ll let you read the rest if you’re interested. Bottom line? Slam dunk! ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/831 "2017-12-15T12:12:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Rubio balks. > > [Rubio to vote against GOP tax bill unless tax credit for working poor is expanded](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/rubio-to-vote-against-gop-tax-bill-unless-tax-credit-for-working-poor-is-expanded/2017/12/14/8be53a22-e0f9-11e7-89e8-edec16379010_story.html?utm_term=.da98ed37535c) They’ll get him (and Lee), whether it be by: 1. Giving him what he wants 2. Giving him “assurances” 3. Calling his bluff and telling him to fuck off Corker’s the only no. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/832 "2017-12-15T14:42:26Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > They’ll get him (and Lee), whether it be by: > > 1. Giving him what he wants > 2. Giving him “assurances” > 3. Calling his bluff and telling him to fuck off > > Corker’s the only no. But there’s a chance McCain will be unable to vote due to illness. They can’t pass with 3 nos. I think they’ll figure out some way to give Rubio what he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/833 "2017-12-15T16:50:14Z")
[No surprise here](https://apnews.com/54a2c71e5d7846688d3da9b0faeef6fd/GOP-leaders-move-to-appease-Rubio,-finalize-big-tax-bill): > [@](#): > > Congressional Republicans finalized their sweeping tax package Friday, expanding its child tax credit to placate a reluctant GOP senator as they pushed to muscle the bill through Congress next week and give President Donald Trump his first major legislative victory. > [@](#): > > “We’re putting in a tremendous child tax credit and it is increasing on a daily basis,” Trump said. “I think that we are going to be in a position to pass something as early as next week which will be monumental.” > > Members of a House-Senate conference committee were signing the final version of the legislation Friday. > [@](#): > > Two Republican members of the committee, Reps. Devin Nunes of California and Kristi Noem of South Dakota, said they believed Rubio’s concerns had been met, but Rubio’s office could not confirm it. > > The tax package would double the basic per-child tax credit from $1,000 to $2,000. The bill makes a smaller amount available to families even if they owe no income tax. Noem said Friday the amount has been increased from $1,100 to $1,400. > > Rubio has said he wanted the $1,100 figure increased, but he hasn’t said by how much. “Hey, Marco Rubio got y’all $300 more bucks! WOOHOO! What a guy! Never mind how much he just gave to those rich folks, YOU got $300! It’s a great day FOR YOU!” :rolleyes: Looks like this is a done deal now, folks. For how long will we all have to live with it? ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/834 "2017-12-15T20:58:40Z")
Corker’s now a yes. Guess that takes care of that. Sure seems like they gave in on a lot of revenue stuff to get there. I think the only things that moved on the cut side was moving from 20 to 21% corporate tax rate (but they’re implementing it a year earlier), and the estate tax. Fells like it’s gotta be out of balance. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/835 "2017-12-15T21:05:14Z")
I read or heard somewhere that this has to be scored by the (CBO?) or some other entity to make sure it can be passed by reconciliation. Is that true, or don’t I know what I am talking about? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/836 "2017-12-15T21:06:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I read or heard somewhere that this has to be scored by the (CBO?) or some other entity to make sure it can be passed by reconciliation. Is that true, or don’t I know what I am talking about? They said in the reconciliation instructions that they could increase the deficit by up to $1.5 trillion. If they go above that, they cannot use reconciliation to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/837 "2017-12-15T21:07:34Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > They said in the reconciliation instructions that they could increase the deficit by up to $1.5 trillion. If they go above that, they cannot use reconciliation to do it. Ok. It seems like a lot of changes have been made to this bill. How do they know they are still under $1.5 trillion? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/838 "2017-12-15T21:15:49Z")
> [@ThisIsTheEnd](#): > > Corker’s now a yes. Guess that takes care of that. … 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/839 "2017-12-15T21:23:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Ok. It seems like a lot of changes have been made to this bill. How do they know they are still under $1.5 trillion? My understanding, which may be flawed, is that they need to ask JCT whether they are under the $1.5 trillion and get updated tables OR that they need to have the budget chair (Mike Enzi) say they are under the $1.5 trillion. IOW, reality is what they claim it is. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/840 "2017-12-15T23:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Count commuters among the losers in the Republican tax bill that the House and Senate are expected to vote on next week. > > The final bill agreed to by Republican negotiators and released late Friday eliminates the tax incentive for private employers that subsidize their employees’ transit, parking and bicycle commuting expenses. > > Companies currently can provide parking or transit passes worth up to $255 a month to employees as a benefit to help pay for their commuting expenses, then deduct the costs from their corporate taxes. > > Businesses would no longer be able write off $20 a month per employee to cover the expense of commuting by bicycle. [Cite](https://apnews.com/049c6c864beb435daa2c94cfbcd5c772/The-Latest:-GOP-tax-bill-eliminates-commuter-incentives). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=43)