# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/841 "2017-12-15T23:32:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Cite](https://apnews.com/049c6c864beb435daa2c94cfbcd5c772/The-Latest:-GOP-tax-bill-eliminates-commuter-incentives). What if you commute by private jet? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/842 "2017-12-16T02:05:39Z")
[Imagine that!](https://apnews.com/049c6c864beb435daa2c94cfbcd5c772/The-Latest:-Estimate-says-tax-bill-adds-$1.46T-to-deficit) > [@](#): > > The preliminary deficit estimate for the final version of the GOP tax bill says it would add $1.46 trillion to the budget deficit over the coming 10 years. :rolleyes::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/843 "2017-12-16T03:24:42Z")
I just ran some numbers using this tax reform [calculator](http://taxplancalculator.com)… A median income couple, $56,000 annual income will save $794 each year. Double median income couple saves $2744… Ok, wait, I guess that means it is Trickle Up that is working. (In other news, my 401k took a hell of a jump upwards in anticipation. Imagine what it will do when the stock bybacks start and the dividends spike. I guess I will be retiring on the table scraps of the big investors.) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/844 "2017-12-16T04:54:33Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I just ran some numbers using this tax reform [calculator](http://taxplancalculator.com)… > > A median income couple, $56,000 annual income will save $794 each year. Double median income couple saves $2744… Ok, wait, I guess that means it is Trickle Up that is working. > > (In other news, my 401k took a hell of a jump upwards in anticipation. Imagine what it will do when the stock bybacks start and the dividends spike. I guess I will be retiring on the table scraps of the big investors.) Eh so in one case they pay 3.29x the other couple and now they’ll pay 3.25x. Given the other problems, this one isn’t standing out. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/845 "2017-12-16T05:12:15Z")
I’ll save $999! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/846 "2017-12-16T05:13:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ll save $999! Was Herman Cain behind the tax cut? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/847 "2017-12-16T05:20:21Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > My understanding, which may be flawed, is that they need to ask JCT whether they are under the $1.5 trillion and get updated tables OR that they need to have the budget chair (Mike Enzi) say they are under the $1.5 trillion. > > IOW, reality is what they claim it is. And here I remember how some pundits in the past told us that we should not worry that people with no scientific knowledge or that are deficient with reality based facts get into power. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/848 "2017-12-16T05:56:09Z")
[CEOs Being Remarkably Open About Plans to Hoard Their Tax Windfall.](https://splinternews.com/ceos-being-remarkably-open-about-plans-to-hoard-their-t-1821325886) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/849 "2017-12-16T06:01:34Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Eh so in one case they pay 3.29x the other couple and now they’ll pay 3.25x. Given the other problems, this one isn’t standing out. I’d rather look at differences in average tax rate: 56,000 income - 7.6% vs 6.2% - 1.4% lower tax rate 112,000 income - 12.5% vs 10.0% - 2.5% lower tax rate 224,000 income - 19.4% vs 16.3% - 3.1% lower tax rate ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/850 "2017-12-16T06:10:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Imagine that!](https://apnews.com/049c6c864beb435daa2c94cfbcd5c772/The-Latest:-Estimate-says-tax-bill-adds-$1.46T-to-deficit):rolleyes::dubious: I suspect that some Republicans are convinced deep down that the GOP is going to be out of power for a long, long time to come, and so it actually isn’t in their interests any longer to rein in the national debt. They might as well win some popularity by introducing tax cuts that will send the national debt climbing, and let future Democratic administrations deal with the hot potato of national debt. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/851 "2017-12-16T07:43:04Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > [CEOs Being Remarkably Open About Plans to Hoard Their Tax Windfall.](https://splinternews.com/ceos-being-remarkably-open-about-plans-to-hoard-their-t-1821325886) That’s a very stupid article. Paying down debt is “hoarding”? Giving money back to the shareholders via dividends or stock buybacks? It’s the shareholders’ money, not the government’s. Also not hoarding. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/852 "2017-12-16T08:09:28Z")
They’re also not investing in infrastructure, hiring more workers, or raising the wages - which is, y’know, how it’s being sold. Instead, it is being held solely within the company and its investors. This will not benefit anyone but a small minority of the wealthiest, and is certainly not be of benefit to the people that work at the company. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/853 "2017-12-16T11:53:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > That’s a very stupid article. > > Paying down debt is “hoarding”? > > Giving money back to the shareholders via dividends or stock buybacks? It’s the shareholders’ money, not the government’s. Also not hoarding. > [@galen\_ubal](#): > > They’re also not investing in infrastructure, hiring more workers, or raising the wages - which is, y’know, how it’s being sold. Instead, it is being held solely within the company and its investors. This will not benefit anyone but a small minority of the wealthiest, and is certainly not be of benefit to the people that work at the company. And particularly, the claim that this bill would at least partially pay for itself by boosting the economy was based on the notion that a decent chunk of this money would find its way into workers’ paychecks (where it would be spent, boosting the economy) or into new investments (i.e. spending, which would boost the economy). So the spin **D’Anconia** wants to put on the fact that the companies and shareholders will keep it all is irrelevant. Maybe there are nice libertarian justifications why this is a Good Thing, but _it won’t have the benefit its proponents claim._ It’s just a trillion and a half of added national debt, for little if any benefit for the vast majority of Americans. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/854 "2017-12-16T12:40:52Z")
[Great tweet by Ann Coulter](https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/status/941721976430723072) about the tax bill: > [@](#): > > We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone. Now Rubio is demanding that we also fund happy families with children who fill their days with joy. With all due respect, Ann, _fuck your feelings_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/855 "2017-12-16T12:51:33Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Instead, it is being held solely within the company and its investors. This will not benefit anyone but a small minority of the wealthiest, and is certainly not be of benefit to the people that work at the company. Most adults own stock and will benefit. But no, that’s not how it was being sold, and obviously that benefit is uneven. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/856 "2017-12-16T16:10:28Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I suspect that some Republicans are convinced deep down that the GOP is going to be out of power for a long, long time to come, and so it actually isn’t in their interests any longer to rein in the national debt. They might as well win some popularity by introducing tax cuts that will send the national debt climbing, and let future Democratic administrations deal with the hot potato of national debt. I dunno. I just think that, with this tax bill, we’re past the point where we have to worry about being fiscally responsible and how to pay for things. The next time that Dems have unified control of government, they can just spend what they want on whichever programs they want and not have to worry about how it’s all financed. It’s obvious that Republicans will rediscover their love of debts and deficits when the Democrats regain power, but c’mon…it’s clear that the GOP is full of shit on that issue and doesn’t really care about it. The next time that happens, the Dems can just ignore those criticisms. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/857 "2017-12-16T16:53:35Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Most adults own stock and will benefit. > > But no, that’s not how it was being sold, and obviously that benefit is uneven. I’m not sure I would say “most” own stock, it is over 50% but just barely. This Gallup [survey](http://news.gallup.com/poll/211052/stock-ownership-down-among-older-higher-income.aspx) pegs it as about 54% - tilted heavily towards older and higher earners. > [@](#): > > U.S. stock ownership rates are highly related to income, ranging from 21% among those with an annual household income of less than $30,000 to 89% among those with an income of $100,000 or more. Americans in all income groups below $100,000 are less likely to own stocks than they were from 2001 to 2008. This includes a drop of six percentage points among lower-income households, 13 points among middle-income households (annual income of $30,000 to $74,999) and 10 points among upper-middle-income households (annual income of $75,000 to $99,999). I own stocks and can easily see that I will gain much more from that fact than the average person will gain from tax cuts. I will gain from all the money that is supposed to be going to increased wages and hiring. What a scam. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/858 "2017-12-16T18:00:20Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I’m not sure I would say “most” own stock, it is over 50% but just barely. Which, in the language I learned growing up, is most. And given how shitty the bill is, we are all quite capable of sticking to accurate criticism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/859 "2017-12-16T18:02:00Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I’m not sure I would say “most” own stock, it is over 50% but just barely. > > This Gallup [survey](http://news.gallup.com/poll/211052/stock-ownership-down-among-older-higher-income.aspx) pegs it as about 54% - tilted heavily towards older and higher earners. Is there some definition of “most” that most of us are unaware of? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/860 "2017-12-16T18:22:32Z")
I read some report about the latest version nullifying the effectiveness of pre-paying 2018 property taxes in 2017 to deduct them. Most reports I see are high level and don’t really corroborate this. Anyone hear about this part? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=44)