# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 44
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/861 "2017-12-16T18:55:49Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Which, in the language I learned growing up, is most. And given how shitty the bill is, we are all quite capable of sticking to accurate criticism. Apologies - I edited poorly after finding a newer survey than the one that reported stock ownership under 50%. Edit in haste - repent at leisure… Axiom has an interesting 10 Point [summary](https://www.axios.com/how-the-tax-code-is-about-to-change-2517768887.html?utm_source=sidebar) of the bill. It is amazing how many of the cuts expire after 2025 and those are for individuals and small businesses. Corporate cuts stay. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/862 "2017-12-16T19:17:07Z")
I’m pretty sure that every single slide at that link ended with “goes back to 2016 levels in 10 years”, so this isn’t even a re-write of the tax code, it’s just a fucking give-away for human people for 10 years, then we get stuck with the bill paying for the corporate people’s endless tax break. _This_ is the party of fiscal responsibility? :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/863 "2017-12-16T19:22:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m pretty sure that every single slide at that link ended with “goes back to 2016 levels in 10 years”, so this isn’t even a re-write of the tax code, it’s just a fucking give-away for human people for 10 years, then we get stuck with the bill paying for the corporate people’s endless tax break. > > _This_ is the party of fiscal responsibility? :dubious: :rolleyes: I think the entire point is that they will then be campaigning on extending or making the tax cuts permanent. That is how they are hiding a larger part of the hole they are blowing in the debt. If the middle class tax cuts expire, then all the people that are all happy about getting a couple hundred dollars extra back will only get that for a few years, then that’ll go away, and by 2025, they will be paying higher taxes than they are now. The other option is to extend those tax cuts further, which will add more trillions of dollars to the debt. They are counting on their supporters to be very shortsighted and bad at math. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/864 "2017-12-16T20:24:33Z")
Hell, I already often question their supporter’s judgement just based on how they vote… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/865 "2017-12-16T20:32:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > _This_ is the party of fiscal responsibility? :dubious: :rolleyes: In politics, the less you plan to do about something, the more you must talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/866 "2017-12-16T21:36:29Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I read some report about the latest version nullifying the effectiveness of pre-paying 2018 property taxes in 2017 to deduct them. Most reports I see are high level and don’t really corroborate this. Anyone hear about this part? In CA, you get the bill, and there is a deadline to pay, but paying before the deadline is not a “pre-pay”. Unless you are saying anyone who doesn’t wait until midnight on the last day the taxes are due is “pre-paying” his property taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/867 "2017-12-16T22:30:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In CA, you get the bill, and there is a deadline to pay, but paying before the deadline is not a “pre-pay”. Unless you are saying anyone who doesn’t wait until midnight on the last day the taxes are due is “pre-paying” his property taxes. The CA prop tax bill is in two parts. The first part that is due Nov 1, delinquent after Dec 10 of each year is for the period July - December of that same year. The second part that is due Feb 1 and delinquent after Apr 10 of each year is for the period January - June of that same year. So, if I pay the 2nd half that is going to be delinquent after April 10, 2018, it’s payment for taxes not yet even due, not even in the period it applies to. I’d say that’s prepay. Theoretically could I could pay the next 5 years of taxes and deduct them? ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/868 "2017-12-16T22:41:23Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I read some report about the latest version nullifying the effectiveness of pre-paying 2018 property taxes in 2017 to deduct them. Most reports I see are high level and don’t really corroborate this. Anyone hear about this part? I have seen several articles in BusinessInsider and NYT about tax strategies to take this year and next year - but nothing about disallowing pre-payment deductions next year. All of the changes seem to take effect for 2018 taxes paid in 2019. I don’t think the IRS would want to/could deal with changes in time for 2017 tax filing. As long as you itemize and don’t hit AMT, I would think it is fine to pre-pay property taxes and write them off against 2017 income. If that becomes impossible, then when you file for 2018 in 2019 couldn’t you take an sales or income tax deduction under the new bill instead of property taxes? My understanding is that you can take any mix of taxes up to a $10,000 deduction. N.B. IANATA ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/869 "2017-12-16T22:54:21Z")
Bone - did you see this thread over in [MPSIMS](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=844873) - might help. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/870 "2017-12-16T23:14:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I suspect that some Republicans are convinced deep down that the GOP is going to be out of power for a long, long time to come, and so it actually isn’t in their interests any longer to rein in the national debt. They might as well win some popularity by introducing tax cuts that will send the national debt climbing, and let future Democratic administrations deal with the hot potato of national debt. This has been their game plan since Reagan. Take the money and run. Blame it on the Democrats and do it again. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/871 "2017-12-16T23:40:24Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The CA prop tax bill is in two parts. The first part that is due Nov 1, delinquent after Dec 10 of each year is for the period July - December of that same year. The second part that is due Feb 1 and delinquent after Apr 10 of each year is for the period January - June of that same year. > > So, if I pay the 2nd half that is going to be delinquent after April 10, 2018, it’s payment for taxes not yet even due, not even in the period it applies to. I’d say that’s prepay. Theoretically could I could pay the next 5 years of taxes and deduct them? I’ve been doing this for 30 years, and have never been called on it by either my tax preparer or by the IRS. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/872 "2017-12-17T00:42:37Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I read some report about the latest version nullifying the effectiveness of pre-paying 2018 property taxes in 2017 to deduct them. Most reports I see are high level and don’t really corroborate this. Anyone hear about this part? I am not a tax lawyer or expert, so don’t take what I’m about to say as gospel, but: My understanding is that there is a rule that says you can’t prepay taxes in 2017 that are for the 2018 tax year to get around the new deduction limits. However, this applies only to taxes that haven’t been levied yet, so no bill has been sent for them, and it only applies to income tax, not property tax. So you should be fine paying the portion of your property tax bill due early next year, that you already got the bill for. As many people, myself included, have already done. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/873 "2017-12-17T01:24:13Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > They’re also not investing in infrastructure, hiring more workers, or raising the wages - which is, y’know, how it’s being sold. Instead, it is being held solely within the company and its investors. This will not benefit anyone but a small minority of the wealthiest, and is certainly not be of benefit to the people that work at the company. You’re not answering the question. How is paying down debt “hoarding”? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/874 "2017-12-17T01:27:00Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re not answering the question. How is paying down debt “hoarding”? How is that creating jobs and raising wages that was promised? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/875 "2017-12-17T01:29:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > You’re not answering the question. How is paying down debt “hoarding”? Do you think buying back stock is the same as paying down debt? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/876 "2017-12-17T01:38:24Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > How is that creating jobs and raising wages that was promised? It’s not. But how is it hoarding? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/877 "2017-12-17T01:39:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Do you think buying back stock is the same as paying down debt? No, but again, it’s not hoarding. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/878 "2017-12-17T01:40:49Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s not. But how is it hoarding? The plan was promoted that by giving the rich and corporations a tax break that the money would go into job creation and higher wages. But I’m sure you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/879 "2017-12-17T01:48:57Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I have seen several articles in BusinessInsider and NYT about tax strategies to take this year and next year - but nothing about disallowing pre-payment deductions next year. All of the changes seem to take effect for 2018 taxes paid in 2019. I don’t think the IRS would want to/could deal with changes in time for 2017 tax filing. > > As long as you itemize and don’t hit AMT, I would think it is fine to pre-pay property taxes and write them off against 2017 income. > > If that becomes impossible, then when you file for 2018 in 2019 couldn’t you take an sales or income tax deduction under the new bill instead of property taxes? My understanding is that you can take any mix of taxes up to a $10,000 deduction. > > N.B. IANATA [The specific text of the act (see page 87)](http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20171218/CRPT-115HRPT-466.pdf) says: > [@](#): > > "For purposes of subparagraph (B), an amount paid in a taxable year beginning before January 1, 2018, with respect to a State or local income tax imposed for a taxable year beginning after December 31, 2017, shall be treated as paid on the last day of the taxable year for which such tax is so imposed.’’. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/880 "2017-12-17T02:17:50Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The plan was promoted that by giving the rich and corporations a tax break that the money would go into job creation and higher wages. > But I’m sure you knew that. For hopefully the last time, how is paying down debt “hoarding”? Answer: It’s not, by any stretch of the (lefty) imagination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=43) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=45)