# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1001 "2017-12-20T14:20:00Z")
And of course, this bill includes some serious incentives for corporations to move jobs overseas. Um, wasn’t reversing that process one of Trump’s big selling points? Wasn’t that supposedly a big part of the ‘economic anxiety’ that was generating so much of Trump’s blue-collar support? So: why aren’t Trump’s supporters demanding that he veto this pile o’ crap, and why isn’t Trump himself pledging to do so? Economic anxiety, my ass. From the POV of Trump and his supporters (forget the Republicans in Congress and their donor class), this is all about sticking it to Dems and liberals and stuff. They know who they hate, and they want those people to get it good and hard. Instead, they’re sticking it to their own selves. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1002 "2017-12-20T14:29:22Z")
The Tampa Bay Times (righty rag) fact checker lists Trump’s campaign promise to eliminate the national debt in 8 years as merely “stalled”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1003 "2017-12-20T14:32:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Tampa Bay Times (righty rag) fact checker lists Trump’s campaign promise to eliminate the national debt in 8 years as merely “stalled”. :rolleyes: I don’t see what the problem is. He’s just going to not pay it, and insist that the lenders eat it. Problem solved! This is why we elected a bone fide businesscritter to the WH. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1004 "2017-12-20T14:40:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Tampa Bay Times (righty rag) fact checker lists Trump’s campaign promise to eliminate the national debt in 8 years as merely “stalled”. :rolleyes: He still has 7 years to go. How he plans to pay down the debt from prison, I don’t know. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1005 "2017-12-20T14:52:52Z")
He’ll make a deal! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1006 "2017-12-20T15:18:57Z")
The GOP celebrates that, at long last, they’ll finally be able to kill off a bunch of ordinary Americans. [Bloomberg:](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/how-mcconnell-succeeded-on-tax-cuts-after-failing-on-health-care) > [@](#): > > Ironically, even though the Senate wasn’t able to repeal Obamacare, once the repeal of the individual mandate penalty – a cornerstone of the ACA – was included in the tax legislation, it helped to bolster support, McConnell said. > > “It’s not a total replacement, but it takes the heart out of Obamacare," McConnell said. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1007 "2017-12-20T15:27:46Z")
All those promises of legislation to stabilize the markets were … _lies_? Gasp! ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1008 "2017-12-20T15:41:11Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He still has 7 years to go. How he plans to pay down the debt from prison, I don’t know. I think that by this point, all parties on all sides have pretty much officially given up on paying down the national debt. It was tough enough at the turn of the millenium; now with $14 trillion(?) added by Bush and Obama, the last nail’s in the coffin. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1009 "2017-12-20T15:42:49Z")
> [@](#): > > All those promises of legislation to stabilize the markets were … lies? Gasp! Oh, no, the market will be stabilized. “Dead” is stable. Solid, reliable. Life is uncertain, variable. But that can be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1010 "2017-12-20T15:50:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The GOP celebrates that, at long last, they’ll finally be able to kill off a bunch of ordinary Americans. > > [Bloomberg:](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-20/how-mcconnell-succeeded-on-tax-cuts-after-failing-on-health-care) > [@](#): > > Ironically, even though the Senate wasn’t able to repeal Obamacare, once the repeal of the individual mandate penalty – a cornerstone of the ACA – was included in the tax legislation, it helped to bolster support, McConnell said. > > “It’s not a total replacement, but it takes the heart out of Obamacare," McConnell said. We are OK then. Mitch and Paul are living proof of life without a heart! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1011 "2017-12-20T16:55:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think that by this point, all parties on all sides have pretty much officially given up on paying down the national debt. It was tough enough at the turn of the millenium; now with $14 trillion(?) added by Bush and Obama, the last nail’s in the coffin. Going into debt is not a bad thing. People and business go into debt all the time. It is when you go into debt, and have nothing to show for it that is a problem. Spending on infrastructure is an investment, spending on healthcare, especially for children, is an investment, returning tax dollars from those in the bottom 2 quintiles where they then spend that money in the economy, improving their lives and increasing demand is an investment. Tax cuts for the wealthy is a luxury, one that does not leave us anything to show for the monies spent. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1012 "2017-12-20T17:30:32Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think that by this point, all parties on all sides have pretty much officially given up on paying down the national debt. It was tough enough at the turn of the millenium; now with $14 trillion(?) added by Bush and Obama, the last nail’s in the coffin. I don’t think that’s true at all. Right now the Democrats can’t do anything about the deficit and the Republicans don’t want to. The next time the Democrats are in power I expect them to do something about lowering the deficit, and for the Republicans to say they’re not doing enough. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1013 "2017-12-20T17:37:31Z")
House is voting now: [C-Span](https://www.c-span.org/video/?438818-2/us-house-revote-tax-reform-bill&live) (third time’s the charm) ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1014 "2017-12-20T17:52:17Z")
Anyone have a recommended reference summary of the bill in its current state? The ones I have haven’t been updated since the house and senate passed different version. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1015 "2017-12-20T17:58:52Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Anyone have a recommended reference summary of the bill in its current state? The ones I have haven’t been updated since the house and senate passed different version. I asked the same question earlier. It sure would be nice to have a detailed understanding of the bill before the end of the year so we can do some tax planning. AFAICT, I’m going to see my tax bill jump by about $18K next year. But that’s just a rough estimate-- I don’t have enough info really get an accurate accounting. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1016 "2017-12-20T18:00:41Z")
Best you can hope for now is Trump forgets to sign. There is precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1017 "2017-12-20T20:24:08Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t think that’s true at all. Right now the Democrats can’t do anything about the deficit and the Republicans don’t want to. The Republicans claim there is no need because the MiracleGroRocketFuelTaxCut[tm] will pay for itself. The Democrats should hold them to that (“…well, then, will all that new revenue about to come in there’s no need to cut any programs then, eh wot?”) ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1018 "2017-12-20T20:29:50Z")
Readers of Ayn Rand’s _Atlas Shrugged_ can’t help but notice similarities between today’s GOP and Rand’s description of the “looters” who would use the government to line their pockets with the money of the citizens. (These people were different from “moochers”, who were your basic ordinary right-wing welfare cheat.) In this analogy, Paul Ryan is Wesley Mouch, the man who directed the government largesse. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1019 "2017-12-20T20:38:22Z")
I’m not a fan of the tax bill, but isn’t something like [this](http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/12/20/rosie-odonnell-offered-two-million-dollars-any-gop-senator-who-voted-against-tax-bill) illegal? > [@](#): > > Rosie O’Donnell Offers $2 Million to GOP Senators to Vote Against Tax Bill ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1020 "2017-12-20T20:39:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not a fan of the tax bill, but isn’t something like [this](http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/12/20/rosie-odonnell-offered-two-million-dollars-any-gop-senator-who-voted-against-tax-bill) illegal? Would be bribery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=52)