# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1021 "2017-12-20T20:52:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Readers of Ayn Rand’s _Atlas Shrugged_ can’t help but notice similarities between today’s GOP and Rand’s description of the “looters” who would use the government to line their pockets with the money of the citizens. (These people were different from “moochers”, who were your basic ordinary right-wing welfare cheat.) > > In this analogy, Paul Ryan is Wesley Mouch, the man who directed the government largesse. “right-wing welfare cheat”? You don’t think anyone on the left cheats the welfare system? Or do you think there’s some other term we should apply to left-wing welfare cheats aside from “moochers”? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1022 "2017-12-20T20:54:25Z")
No, my bad on the mispost, appreciate it. To clarify: “a right-wingers vision of welfare cheats.” Different than looters, of course, these were just your ordinary welfare queens, complete with gold braces. Their politics didn’t matter as they would vote for the biggest handouts, regardless of party. Regardless, in Randian terms, the GOP is officially the party of Looters. In fighting a fiction, Paul Ryan became exactly that which he claimed to hate. He is now Wesley Mouch. No small feat, that. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1023 "2017-12-20T21:06:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I asked the same question earlier. It sure would be nice to have a detailed understanding of the bill before the end of the year so we can do some tax planning. AFAICT, I’m going to see my tax bill jump by about $18K next year. But that’s just a rough estimate-- I don’t have enough info really get an accurate accounting. If it can be done without getting too personal, what is the major factor in your skyrocketing tax bill? The SALT limitations? I’m actually seeing my taxes go down about $6k, largely due to the rejiggering of brackets and the bump of the child credit phase out to $400k. I guess Washington state is a bit of an anomaly, supposedly a heavy tax blue state but with an extremely regressive sales and property tax bias. I’d better keep contributing to my 401k. I’d hate to see the home my kids will want to put me in when they get the bill for this monstrosity. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1024 "2017-12-20T21:21:00Z")
AT&T announced it’ll pay out a $1,000 bonus to over 200,000 employees because of the tax bill. Surprising to see a giant corporation do the right thing, but doubt it’ll catch on. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1025 "2017-12-20T21:46:46Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > AT&T announced it’ll pay out a $1,000 bonus to over 200,000 employees because of the tax bill. Surprising to see a giant corporation do the right thing, but doubt it’ll catch on. Boy, they really don’t want to sell CNN… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1026 "2017-12-20T22:28:50Z")
There have been rumors abounding about VP Mike Pence being promoted to Presidential Praise-singer after the fellational tongue-bath he performed in today’s WH celebration. Naturally, I suspected an Onionism, and the rumor is not true. There is no such office. Yet. (It is SOP to include a link so that people know you aren’t making shit up, so here’s the official transcript including Ben Carson’s prayer to deficit Jesus as well and the Vice Presidential Verbal Knob Slobbering. I can’t recommend you actually read it, its too depressing. I have a modest but solid array of psychoactive chemicals at hand, plus a queue of classic Chuck Jones cartoons, so I will recover. But not everyone has my advantages…) [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-donald-trump-vice-president-mike-pence-members-cabinet/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-donald-trump-vice-president-mike-pence-members-cabinet/) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1027 "2017-12-20T22:55:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > There have been rumors abounding about VP Mike Pence being promoted to Presidential Praise-singer after the fellational tongue-bath he performed in today’s WH celebration. Naturally, I suspected an Onionism, and the rumor is not true. There is no such office. Yet. > > (It is SOP to include a link so that people know you aren’t making shit up, so here’s the official transcript including Ben Carson’s prayer to deficit Jesus as well and the Vice Presidential Verbal Knob Slobbering. I can’t recommend you actually read it, its too depressing. I have a modest but solid array of psychoactive chemicals at hand, plus a queue of classic Chuck Jones cartoons, so I will recover. But not everyone has my advantages…) > > [https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-donald-trump-vice-president-mike-pence-members-cabinet/](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-donald-trump-vice-president-mike-pence-members-cabinet/) I’d say “Mother” Pence should stop worrying about her little boy dallying with women. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1028 "2017-12-21T00:12:13Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Anyone have a recommended reference summary of the bill in its current state? The ones I have haven’t been updated since the house and senate passed different version. You need to pass the bill to find out what’s in it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1029 "2017-12-21T00:17:23Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > If it can be done without getting too personal, what is the major factor in your skyrocketing tax bill? The SALT limitations? Yes, that and the loss of the personal exemption w/o any dependents to offset it. Fortunately I’m somewhat mortgage-phobic, so I don’t have a typical SF Bay Area-sized mortgage and still fit under the deductibility rules for all my mortgage interest. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1030 "2017-12-21T02:34:04Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You need to pass the bill to find out what’s in it. I liked the version with the illegible scrawlings in the margins. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1031 "2017-12-21T04:22:32Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Anyone have a recommended reference summary of the bill in its current state? The ones I have haven’t been updated since the house and senate passed different version. This is probably the best one I’ve seen: [Final GOP Tax Plan Summary: Tax Strategies Under TCJA 2017](https://www.kitces.com/blog/final-gop-tax-plan-summary-tcja-2017-individual-tax-brackets-pass-through-strategies/) ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1032 "2017-12-21T04:59:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > AT&T announced it’ll pay out a $1,000 bonus to over 200,000 employees because of the tax bill. Surprising to see a giant corporation do the right thing, but doubt it’ll catch on. It is catching on. Comcast, Boeing, Wells Fargo and Fifth Third Bank have announced [similar plans](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-plan-companies-rush-to-announce-special-bonuses-pay-hikes-2017-12). I also find it interesting that all have either been dealing with intense government scrutiny for merger activities or been the target of tweets. In At&Ts case, they face a $500M breakup fee if the merger fails. Boeing has AF1 problems, Wells was threatened with a recent presidential [tweet](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/08/trump-promises-pursue-wells-fargo-fraud-severe-penalties/934311001/). ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1033 "2017-12-21T05:20:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > AT&T announced it’ll pay out a $1,000 bonus to over 200,000 employees because of the tax bill. Surprising to see a giant corporation do the right thing, but doubt it’ll catch on. > [@jasg](#): > > It is catching on. Comcast, Boeing, Wells Fargo and Fifth Third Bank have announced [similar plans](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-plan-companies-rush-to-announce-special-bonuses-pay-hikes-2017-12). > > I also find it interesting that all have either been dealing with intense government scrutiny for merger activities or been the target of tweets. > > In At&Ts case, they face a $500M breakup fee if the merger fails. Boeing has AF1 problems, Wells was threatened with a recent presidential [tweet](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/08/trump-promises-pursue-wells-fargo-fraud-severe-penalties/934311001/). [Sure, a thousand buck bonus is nice,](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/att-trump-corporate-tax-cut-bonus_us_5a3ae007e4b025f99e145c88?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009) but: > [@](#): > > The $200 million cost of providing $1,000 bonuses to so many AT&T employees is actually a drop in the bucket for a company that saw pre-tax operating income of $6.4 billion in just the third quarter of 2017. So, yeah, it’s nice they did this - but unless my math is seriously off, they just spent 3.125% of their profits from _one_ quarter for this bonus. I won’t say that’s just a rounding error to them, but c’mon! Hell, they’re trying to spend $85 billion dollars to acquire Time-Warner. Nope, this is just a means to make Trump look good, and get that lawsuit to go away. ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1034 "2017-12-21T05:25:38Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > It is catching on. Comcast, Boeing, Wells Fargo and Fifth Third Bank have announced [similar plans](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gop-tax-plan-companies-rush-to-announce-special-bonuses-pay-hikes-2017-12). > > I also find it interesting that all have either been dealing with intense government scrutiny for merger activities or been the target of tweets. > > In At&Ts case, they face a $500M breakup fee if the merger fails. Boeing has AF1 problems, Wells was threatened with a recent presidential [tweet](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/08/trump-promises-pursue-wells-fargo-fraud-severe-penalties/934311001/). What, Wells Fargo couldn’t give their employees a wage increase from all the money they made fraudulently opening accounts in the names of millions of their customers without their permission? (Seriously, fuck Wells Fargo.) Also I had a thought when I saw the link **Jas09** posted - the sunset provisions where taxes get raised again are set for 2025. I’m wondering if that was the year they had to do it to make their mental gymnastics come out under $1.5 trillion in order to avoid a filibuster and be able to pass with a simple majority, or if they’re laboring under the laughable delusion that Trump will get elected for a second term, serve through 2024, and then they can blame the new Democratic president in 2025 when taxes go up on schedule. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1035 "2017-12-21T05:41:21Z")
[It appears that the AT&T bonus](https://splinternews.com/it-sure-looks-like-at-t-is-spinning-a-union-victory-int-1821476305) is more the result of bargaining by the CWA (Communication Workers of America) union, rather than the goodness of their hearts. Fancy that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1036 "2017-12-21T05:48:28Z")
Well, makes sense. AT&T gets a permanent tax cut, and shares that perpetual gain with a one-time payment to employees. Win-win! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1037 "2017-12-21T12:30:25Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > What, Wells Fargo couldn’t give their employees a wage increase from all the money they made fraudulently opening accounts in the names of millions of their customers without their permission? (Seriously, fuck Wells Fargo.) > > Also I had a thought when I saw the link **Jas09** posted - the sunset provisions where taxes get raised again are set for 2025. I’m wondering if that was the year they had to do it to make their mental gymnastics come out under $1.5 trillion in order to avoid a filibuster and be able to pass with a simple majority, or if they’re laboring under the laughable delusion that Trump will get elected for a second term, serve through 2024, and then they can blame the new Democratic president in 2025 when taxes go up on schedule. First of all, tax cuts that expire is NOT the same thing as raising taxes. Secondly, the individual tax cuts could have been made permanent had some democrats worked with the majority. The democrats refused. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1038 "2017-12-21T12:38:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > First of all, tax cuts that expire is NOT the same thing as raising taxes. > > Secondly, the individual tax cuts could have been made permanent had some democrats worked with the majority. The democrats refused. The Republicans have the majority. They could have made the individual tax cuts permanent without the Democrats if they had _wanted_ to. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1039 "2017-12-21T14:29:29Z")
The Democrats were most certainly NOT allowed to participate in the tax bill. They were barred from the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1040 "2017-12-21T19:15:35Z")
They could have said “Thank you, sir, can I have another?”. Nobody stopping them from abject surrender! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=53)