# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1201 "2017-12-31T12:25:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It would be helpful if you posted a link that wasn’t behind a paywall. :rolleyes: I quoted what was needed to illustrate the point I was making. If you want to pretend it’s not there, that’s your doing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1202 "2017-12-31T14:19:26Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Lynn Stout couldn’t destroy her way out of a paper bag. I think that’s a commentary on how silly your arguments have been in this thread. Do you know if you know of a corporate charter that refutes her research? Which one? > [@](#): > > One of her “notable theories” is in regards to “The importance of human conscience to peace, prosperity, and the rule of law”. Sure, lady. Ivory tower nonsense. I’m glad you can skim Wikipedia and become an expert in an academic so quickly! Is it your position that the Founding Fathers, for example, found that he human conscience had no relevance to them or their work? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1203 "2017-12-31T17:07:11Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I also have trouble reading Washington Post articles. This, despite that I’ve obeyed their earlier instruction to disable my Ad Blocker. Right-click and open in Incognito. It isn’t just for porn. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1204 "2017-12-31T17:53:29Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Right-click and open in Incognito. It isn’t just for porn. Thank you. My 'Net and Browser ignorances are embarrassing. Right-clicking just now I see the only option I’ve ever selected other than ‘Open in New Tab’ is ‘Open in New Window’ and _ **I’ve only clicked it by accident** _, aiming for ‘New Tab’ but missing! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1205 "2017-12-31T21:01:47Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Selected quotes that destroy your arguments: There are at least two sides to every debate. A ULCA professor says otherwise: > [@](#): > > There are many reasons why the law requires corporate directors and managers to pursue long-term, sustainable shareholder wealth maximization in preference to the interests of other stakeholders or society at large, but the most basic one is that managers who are responsible for everyone are responsible to no one. > **[A Duty to Shareholder Value](https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/a-duty-to-shareholder-value)** > > If directors were allowed to deviate from shareholder wealth maximization, they could turn to indeterminate balancing standards, which provide no accountability. And this professor agrees that it is the law, but thinks the law should change. One cannot cherry pick Lynn Stout’s views and declare them as factual. > [@](#): > > The chief justice of the Delaware Supreme Court, Leo Strine, put it simply in a recent law review article: “Directors must make stockholder welfare their sole end.” > **[It's Law, But It Shouldn't Be](https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/what-are-corporations-obligations-to-shareholders/its-law-but-it-shouldnt-be)** > > As long as Citizens United is good constitutional law, shareholder primacy will be bad for society. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1206 "2017-12-31T21:14:47Z")
Missed edit window. I messed up the order of my C&P. To clarify, Professor Yosifon from the Santa Clara University School of Law agrees that it is the law, but that the law should be changed. Lynn Stout is not the final arbiter. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1207 "2017-12-31T22:27:45Z")
… on a personal note, I do find it amusing that a poster named “D’Anconia” is arguing the merits of a looters bill which would be the envy of Wesley Mouch and Cuffy Meigs. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1208 "2017-12-31T22:30:40Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … on a personal note, I do find it amusing that a poster named “D’Anconia” is arguing the merits of a looters bill which would be the envy of Wesley Mouch and Cuffy Meigs. How is the tax bill in question a “looters bill”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1209 "2018-01-01T00:07:27Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is the tax bill in question a “looters bill”? I have this same question. Like 80% of families are getting tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1210 "2018-01-01T00:12:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is the tax bill in question a “looters bill”? If your main aim was to cut taxes on the middle class, is this the bill you would write? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1211 "2018-01-01T01:18:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If your main aim was to cut taxes on the middle class, is this the bill you would write? I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure their main aim was to have an across-the-board tax cut. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1212 "2018-01-01T01:30:31Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > How is the tax bill in question a “looters bill”? > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I have this same question. Like 80% of families are getting tax cuts. Well “looters bill” is hardly a precisely defined concept, however, if you take $1000 out of a club treasury and distribute if by giving $900 to one person and $1 to each of 100 people, I could see someone saying you looted the treasury even though 100% of the members got something. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1213 "2018-01-01T01:31:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure their main aim was to have an across-the-board tax cut. That’s not a board, that’s a wedge. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1214 "2018-01-01T01:37:18Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Well “looters bill” is hardly a precisely defined concept, however, if you take $1000 out of a club treasury and distribute if by giving $900 to one person and $1 to each of 100 people, I could see someone saying you looted the treasury even though 100% of the members got something. A tax cut, at any income level, is NOT “looting the Treasury”. It’s the taxpayers’ money in the first goddamn place. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1215 "2018-01-01T01:57:39Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Well “looters bill” is hardly a precisely defined concept, however, if you take $1000 out of a club treasury and distribute if by giving $900 to one person and $1 to each of 100 people, I could see someone saying you looted the treasury even though 100% of the members got something. And you didn’t even loot the treasury, you “looted the future” by borrowing $1.5T dollars. Borrowed money to mostly reduce the taxes of the very wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1216 "2018-01-01T02:12:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know, but I’m pretty sure their main aim was to have an across-the-board tax cut. Trump’s economic advisor said: ““Any reductions we have in upper-income taxes will be offset by less deductions so that there will be no absolute tax cut for the upper class.” That is the opposite of an ATB tax cut. And even so, the benefits of the bill are clearly tilted to the wealthy. [https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/12/07/donald-trump-middle-class-tax](https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/12/07/donald-trump-middle-class-tax) > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > A tax cut, at any income level, is NOT “looting the Treasury”. It’s the taxpayers’ money in the first goddamn place. Would you support a bill that cuts all taxes by 50%, knowing that it would grow the deficit by about $15 trillion? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1217 "2018-01-01T02:15:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > A tax cut, at any income level, is NOT “looting the Treasury”. It’s the taxpayers’ money in the first goddamn place. Even accepting that, you would have to admit this bill is grossly irresponsible, even worse when a “fiscally responsible” party passes it. It’s like you opening up a credit card in your child’s name, before they have any say on the matter, to invest in the [Moller Skycar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moller_M400_Skycar) because THIS time you think you will make bank on your investment. You know it hasn’t worked for the past 40 years, but by golly, it’s just needs a little more money invested. This tax bill is no different. It’s completely irresponsible. It is robbery, and not from the tax payer like you seem to imply, but from our future. It’s debt and interest we will have to pay from here on out for no purpose other than to further enrich the rich. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1218 "2018-01-01T02:25:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Would you support a bill that cuts all taxes by 50%, knowing that it would grow the deficit by about $15 trillion? Congress could cut spending, even if they have to change Senate/House rules and even laws. They just won’t. This applies to both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1219 "2018-01-01T02:38:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Congress could cut spending, even if they have to change Senate/House rules and even laws. They just won’t. This applies to both parties. So, yes, you would buy a pig in a poke so long as it is labeled “tax cuts?” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/1220 "2018-01-01T03:22:24Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So, yes, you would buy a pig in a poke so long as it is labeled “tax cuts?” No, and please don’t attribute things to me I haven’t said. Both taxes and spending should be cut. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=62)