# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/121 "2017-10-20T14:22:31Z")
> [@](#): > > The budget plan passed on a near party-line vote late Thursday includes rules that will allow Republicans to pass tax legislation through the Senate without Democratic votes and without fear of a Democratic filibuster. Nonetheless, the GOP’s narrow 52-48 majority in the Senate will be difficult for leadership to navigate, as illustrated by the Republicans’ multiple failures to pass legislation repealing and replacing “Obamacare.” > > The final vote on the budget was 51-49 with deficit hawk Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky the lone opposing GOP vote. To me, it’s starting to look like the fix is in. I welcome opposing evidence and opinions, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/122 "2017-10-20T15:15:05Z")
If they end up passing what looks like will be a tax _increase_ for a lot of folks without much money, maybe they’ll suffer for their fuckupery? But perhaps I underestimate mental faculties of many of the folks who voted them in. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/123 "2017-10-20T15:51:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > To me, it’s starting to look like the fix is in. I welcome opposing evidence and opinions, tho. I don’t know what you mean by “the fix is in”? Do you mean that they seem likely to pass some form of tax reform legislation? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/124 "2017-10-20T16:08:19Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > If they end up passing what looks like will be a tax _increase_ for a lot of folks without much money, maybe they’ll suffer for their fuckupery? But perhaps I underestimate mental faculties of many of the folks who voted them in. It will be Obama’s fault. He fucked the economy up SO much, that even the great savior’s tax cuts can’t save it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/125 "2017-10-23T17:00:47Z")
[Story here](https://apnews.com/18421358738b4b19999ae7d3d1743307/Ivanka-Trump-to-talk-taxes-in-Pennsylvania). > [@](#): > > Ivanka Trump is heading to Pennsylvania to promote the Republican tax overhaul plan. > > The White House says Trump will appear at a town hall in Richboro Monday, with U.S. Treasurer Jovita Carranza (kah-RAHN’-zah). The event will be moderated by former Rep. Nan Hayworth. > > A key part of the conversation will be the proposal to expand the child tax credit, which the first daughter is backing. Ivanka Trump has been working on the plan to expand the $1,000 credit with the administration and lawmakers. Details on how much the credit should increase to have not been settled, and the president’s daughter has not publicly offered a number. First question: how important is the child tax credit and why should it be increased? I have no children and so have no direct experience with this. Second question: why in the fuck should anyone care what Ivanka Trump has to say about taxes? When did she become a fucking tax expert? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/126 "2017-10-23T17:19:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Story here](https://apnews.com/18421358738b4b19999ae7d3d1743307/Ivanka-Trump-to-talk-taxes-in-Pennsylvania).First question: how important is the child tax credit and why should it be increased? I have no children and so have no direct experience with this. > > Second question: why in the fuck should anyone care what Ivanka Trump has to say about taxes? When did she become a fucking tax expert? 😕 I’m having my first child in March, so I’ll go with “very important” and “because tax cuts are great”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/127 "2017-10-23T17:39:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by “the fix is in”? Do you mean that they seem likely to pass some form of tax reform legislation? They’re going to pass something that looks like it, because it’s their last chance to go back to The Base and show they’ve done something this year. What that thing exactly \*is \*just isn’t important to them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/128 "2017-10-23T17:43:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They’re going to pass something that looks like it, because it’s their last chance to go back to The Base and show they’ve done something this year. What that thing exactly \*is \*just isn’t important to them. In a surprise to precisely no one, it turns out that self-important politicians don’t often care about the details / minutiae. Shocker. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/129 "2017-10-23T18:02:56Z")
This time, they don’t even care about the broad outlines. Note the lack of any, other than the feeling that they need to do to the entire country and its economy what they did to Kansas. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/130 "2017-10-23T18:09:19Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Also while you may have never lived in a state with income tax, the SALT deduction can be applied to (income tax OR sales tax) AND real estate taxes. So all seven states without an income tax still have of returns that deduct SALT. Here’s what I don’t understand, though: all the discussion has been about eliminating the state income tax deduction only. I’m not against eliminating SALT in principle, but if only income deductions are eliminated, it seems like an obvious fuck you to blue states. I live in Florida, where we only have sales taxes, and calculating the deduction requires to much time and effort that we don’t even bother unless we bought a home or several cars or something. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/131 "2017-10-23T18:25:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Here’s what I don’t understand, though: all the discussion has been about eliminating the state income tax deduction only. It makes more sense if you look at how states with income taxes voted last fall. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/132 "2017-10-23T18:58:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Here’s what I don’t understand, though: all the discussion has been about eliminating the state income tax deduction only. I’m not against eliminating SALT in principle, but if only income deductions are eliminated, it seems like an obvious fuck you to blue states. > > I live in Florida, where we only have sales taxes, and calculating the deduction requires to much time and effort that we don’t even bother unless we bought a home or several cars or something. The proposal thus far is to eliminate all personal deductions other than mortgage interest and charitable donations. So that’s all of SALT, not just income tax. And what do you mean “to much time and effort”? Sure, you _could_ save every receipt. Or just use the tables in Schedule A. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/133 "2017-10-23T19:06:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > This time, they don’t even care about the broad outlines. Note the lack of any, other than the feeling that they need to do to the entire country and its economy what they did to Kansas. That’s not really unique to “this time” either. And I don’t see what Trump’s proposal has to do with Kansas, but I’d love for you to flesh out the details for me here. How do you see them as similar? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/134 "2017-10-23T19:44:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The electoral college map is showing that he won an overwhelming victory in 1984. He did so, in part at least, because people were able to answer his “better off than you were four years ago” questions in the affirmative that time around. Does this mean that you would advocate for a tax system similar to the one we had in 1984? With fourteen or fifteen brackets going up to a 50% tax rate? The current proposal in question seems to be a clear step away from the system from 1984. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/135 "2017-10-23T19:58:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How the FUCK would cutting corp income tax put $$ into the pockets or ordinary citizens? > > " > The analysis by Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said that the considerably lower rate would spur more investment by companies, which would then boost hiring and worker productivity. …Those figures, however, rely on research arguing that workers — rather than investors — would primarily benefit from the lower corporate rate." Yeah, since when have great profits been plowed into higher paychecks for the workers? Im sure there is a great deal of sleight of hand going on with any published figures. I would like to ask you a question though; do you think any tax expense a corporation is burdened with is NOT at least partly passed onto the consumer? Lets assume corporation tax is increased to 50% tomorrow; do you really believe the corporation will be willing to take that entire tax hit without passing some onto the consumer? Greater costs lead to greater prices at the till. It doesn’t really matter if that cost is labelled as corporation tax or sales tax. It will be paid for, in the most part, by ordinary citizens. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/136 "2017-10-23T19:59:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s not really unique to “this time” either. Yet you chose to dismiss “details” without noticing there aren’t any yet. > [@](#): > > And I don’t see what Trump’s proposal has to do with Kansas, but I’d love for you to flesh out the details for me here. How do you see them as similar? You can’t really be uninformed about[the Brownback Administration](https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2017/06/07/the-great-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-crashes-and-burns/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/) and its demonstration of how massive tax cuts create Utopia. We need more of that, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/137 "2017-10-23T20:11:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yet you chose to dismiss “details” without noticing there aren’t any yet. There is some information about Trump’s proposed tax plan. I don’t know if you’d prefer to call those pieces of information “details” or “principles” or a “broad outline” or something else. It would be silly to claim that we don’t know anything about what Trump’s tax plan would look like, agreed? I’d also agree it would be silly to claim that we know _everything_ Trump’s tax plan would do, because clearly some of the details are missing. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can’t really be uninformed about[the Brownback Administration](https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2017/06/07/the-great-kansas-tax-cut-experiment-crashes-and-burns/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/) and its demonstration of how massive tax cuts create Utopia. We need more of that, don’t we? I understand that Kansas enacted some tax cuts. Liberals seem to think it’s been the death knell for Kansas. What do those tax cuts, and Trump’s proposal, have in common? Is it really just as shallow as them both being tax cuts? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/138 "2017-10-23T20:18:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It would be silly to claim that we don’t know anything about what Trump’s tax plan would look like, agreed? Yes, it would save him a ton, whatever it is, but we won’t know until he releases his tax returns as promised. As for what Congress would pass, we have no idea because Trump is telling them to do all the work and figure it all out for him. > [@](#): > > I understand that Kansas enacted some tax cuts. Liberals seem to think it’s been the death knell for Kansas. What do \*you \*think they’ve achieved there? Or are you content to simply dismiss factuality as just another liberal thing, as you’re doing here? > [@](#): > > What do those tax cuts, and Trump’s proposal, have in common? Is it really just as shallow as them both being tax cuts? Given that the same ideology is in effect in today’s national GOP as in Brownback’s Kansas, the answer is pretty much Yes. Do you have some fundamental differences to point out for us? Did you even hear of the Conservative Dawn in Kansas before today? :dubious: One might have thought Hannity & Co. would be crowing about it nonstop. Odd, that, huh? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/139 "2017-10-23T20:27:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … Given that the same ideology is in effect in today’s national GOP as in Brownback’s Kansas, the answer is pretty much Yes. … That’s all I needed to know. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/140 "2017-10-23T20:28:18Z")
> [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](#): > > Does this mean that you would advocate for a tax system similar to the one we had in 1984? With fourteen or fifteen brackets going up to a 50% tax rate? The current proposal in question seems to be a clear step away from the system from 1984. No. I’d prefer a flat tax. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=8)