# The 2017/2018 Trump/GOP tax plan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2017, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442 "2017-09-27T17:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/141 "2017-10-23T20:36:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s all I needed to know. Thanks. No, you need to know a \*whole \*lot more than that, if you’re going to be sufficiently horrified that these yahoos might actually succeed in their vandalism spree. But at least you now have some inkling that there may be a problem or so if the GOP tax agenda for the nation is similar to their agenda for Kansas, as all of the few signs so far make it appear to be. Do you agree at all? Are you even willing to consider the possibility? Or is just gettin’ the libruls mad again the only goal that matters? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/142 "2017-10-23T20:41:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, you need to know a \*whole \*lot more than that, if you’re going to be sufficiently horrified that these yahoos might actually succeed in their vandalism spree. > > But at least you now have some inkling that there may be a problem or so if the GOP tax agenda for the nation is similar to their agenda for Kansas, as all of the few signs so far make it appear to be. Do you agree at all? Are you even willing to consider the possibility? Or is just gettin’ the libruls mad again the only goal that matters? I was willing to consider the possibility, which is why I said in post #133 “… I’d love for you to flesh out the details for me here. How do you see them as similar?” You declined to do so. Whether you’re angry or not really isn’t going to affect my day. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/143 "2017-10-23T23:03:40Z")
You need to start paying attention in your own right. Nobody is here to spoonfeed you. But now we at least know you have zero knowledge or interest in the subject beyond librul-bashin’, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/144 "2017-10-23T23:18:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You need to start paying attention in your own right. Nobody is here to spoonfeed you. > > But now we at least know you have zero knowledge or interest in the subject beyond librul-bashin’, so there’s that. This is false. I certainly had interest. You made a claim (“… they need to do to the entire country and its economy what they did to Kansas.”), and I asked you to provide details. If you aren’t capable of it, or aren’t interested in doing it, I don’t feel particularly compelled to do your research for you. It should surprise precisely no one that, given your lack of willingness to provide evidence or cites for your claim, it gets dismissed as unsubstantiated. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/145 "2017-10-24T00:32:03Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/146 "2017-10-24T01:40:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I understand that Kansas enacted some tax cuts. Liberals seem to think it’s been the death knell for Kansas. What do those tax cuts, and Trump’s proposal, have in common? Is it really just as shallow as them both being tax cuts? Jesus Herbert Walker CHRIST, would you PLEASE know what you are talking about once in a while? Kansas’ GOP LEGISLATURE overrode Brownback’s tax cuts- the facts became so obvious, even conservatives couldn’t pretend any more. Nothing to do with liberals, they were shut out entirely, exactly the way ignoramuses like you want it. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/07/kansas-republicans-raise-taxes-rebuking-their-gop-governors-real-live-experiment-in-conservative-policy/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/07/kansas-republicans-raise-taxes-rebuking-their-gop-governors-real-live-experiment-in-conservative-policy/) > [@](#): > > In a decisive repudiation of conservative tax-cutting philosophy, Kansas Republicans voted this week to reverse deep tax cuts enacted by Gov. Sam Brownback (R), a move that lays bare the challenges of one-party control and the risks for Republicans in Washington pursuing a similar policy at the national level. > > The vote by lawmakers in Kansas, which came late Tuesday, followed years of frustration about the damaging impacts of tax cuts on Kansas’s state government. With huge Republican majorities, Brownback had pursued deep reductions in tax rates early in his administration, calling them a “real live experiment” in conservative governance, and tried to veto the legislation rolling them back. > > Yet the Kansas legislature’s decision to override his veto could reverberate in many statehouses, where Republicans dominate, and in Washington, where President Trump and congressional allies have made passing similarly deep tax cuts a central pillar of their agenda for this year. The tax reductions in Kansas had not delivered the economic growth Brownback had promised but caused massive holes in the state’s budget and led to unpopular spending cuts in areas such as education spending. > > “Kansas has had a turn to the far right, and we seem to be centering ourselves,” said Rep. Melissa Rooker, a Republican who represents a suburb of Kansas City and voted for the tax increase. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/147 "2017-10-24T03:28:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by “the fix is in”? Do you mean that they seem likely to pass some form of tax reform legislation? Yes, it is too bad that Trump supporters know so little about the tax cut they support. \*\*A high GOPster priority is repeal of the estate tax. \*\* Estate tax applies to a married couple with an estate valued at $11 million or more, so many expecting to have, say, $13 million expect the repeal of the estate tax to be a big gain for them. Wrong. The estate tax applies to the residue _after subtracting $11 million_ — in our example, tax would be paid only on $2 million. In fact, through the use of exempt gifts, trusts, and other loopholes, even that estate would avoid the entire estate tax. With proper tax advice, it won’t kick in until the estate is _well over_ the $11 million exclusion. _Thus the estate tax repeal has no effect on anyone except the very rich._ **Fewer tax brackets.** Let’s first note that a “flat tax” isn’t really single-bracket: there are still two tax rates, 0% and 10%. This is due to a belief that a man earning $12,000 needs his marginal dollar more than a man earning $120,000. Do you agree with that? How about a man earning $1,200,000? Does he need his marginal dollar as much as low-income people? Or is it better to give him a huge tax break and recover some of the money from the working poor? **The planned tax breaks will increase corporate profitability.** Is this needed? Remember that American corporations already show record profits and are the envy of the world. **The planned tax breaks will benefit multi-millionaires most.** The gap between rich and poor is higher than it has been for at least 85 years. This inequality causes social and economic stresses. _Is it wise to exacerbate income inequality further deliberately?_ **Do you believe the tax cuts will benefit middle class significantly?** Wrong. We can help you fight your ignorance, but you do have to try to help yourself too. **Trickle-down and Laffer-curve economics have been debunked.** **Are deficits good?** Many conservatives do not think so. Yet massive tax cuts will drive up government debt. **Perhaps you are a multi-millionaire and can’t think beyond “Ha Ha! More for me!”** And think Jesus will reward you in the after-life because he loves the prosperous people. Fine. I suppose you consider people like Buffett and Gates who call for increased taxes on the rich, to be “suckers”? This should give you a head start, **HurricaneDitka**. Do some reading and come back when you have more questions. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/148 "2017-10-24T03:54:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Yes, it is too bad that Trump supporters know so little about the tax cut they support. > > \*\*A high GOPster priority is repeal of the estate tax. \*\* Estate tax applies to a married couple with an estate valued at $11 million or more, so many expecting to have, say, $13 million expect the repeal of the estate tax to be a big gain for them. Wrong. The estate tax applies to the residue _after subtracting $11 million_ — in our example, tax would be paid only on $2 million. In fact, through the use of exempt gifts, trusts, and other loopholes, even that estate would avoid the entire estate tax. With proper tax advice, it won’t kick in until the estate is _well over_ the $11 million exclusion. _Thus the estate tax repeal has no effect on anyone except the very rich._ > > **Fewer tax brackets.** Let’s first note that a “flat tax” isn’t really single-bracket: there are still two tax rates, 0% and 10%. This is due to a belief that a man earning $12,000 needs his marginal dollar more than a man earning $120,000. Do you agree with that? How about a man earning $1,200,000? Does he need his marginal dollar as much as low-income people? Or is it better to give him a huge tax break and recover some of the money from the working poor? > > **The planned tax breaks will increase corporate profitability.** Is this needed? Remember that American corporations already show record profits and are the envy of the world. **The planned tax breaks will benefit multi-millionaires most.** The gap between rich and poor is higher than it has been for at least 85 years. This inequality causes social and economic stresses. _Is it wise to exacerbate income inequality further deliberately?_ > > **Do you believe the tax cuts will benefit middle class significantly?** Wrong. We can help you fight your ignorance, but you do have to try to help yourself too. > > **Trickle-down and Laffer-curve economics have been debunked.** > > **Are deficits good?** Many conservatives do not think so. Yet massive tax cuts will drive up government debt. > > **Perhaps you are a multi-millionaire and can’t think beyond “Ha Ha! More for me!”** And think Jesus will reward you in the after-life because he loves the prosperous people. Fine. I suppose you consider people like Buffett and Gates who call for increased taxes on the rich, to be “suckers”? > > This should give you a head start, **HurricaneDitka**. Do some reading and come back when you have more questions. I understand the basic outlines of Trump’s tax proposal. That’s not what my question was. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/149 "2017-10-24T10:21:43Z")
I don’t know what “the fix is in” means either. It’s just not a phrase I use. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/150 "2017-10-24T10:45:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > . . . ignoramuses like you. . . Back off. This is not The BBQ Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/151 "2017-10-24T10:49:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I understand the basic outlines of Trump’s tax proposal. That’s not what my question was. 😕 I see a snark question from you and a rhetorical question. Please reword your question in plain English if you need a better answer. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/152 "2017-10-24T13:51:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > 😕 I see a snark question from you and a rhetorical question. Please reword your question in plain English if you need a better answer. My question was essentially "Why do you say “the fix is in”? It’s normally a phrase I see associated with cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/153 "2017-10-24T14:10:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Back off. > > This is not The BBQ Pit. > > [/Moderating] Ignoramus is a noun that can track accurately onto the real world. Is it name calling if it is a true description? It prompts the question, if HD would answer instead of telling us what they think: what is a liberal? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/154 "2017-10-24T14:16:12Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Ignoramus is a noun that can track accurately onto the real world. Is it name calling if it is a true description? > > It prompts the question, if HD would answer instead of telling us what they think: what is a liberal? I don’t think petty insults merit a serious response, so you won’t be getting one from me. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/155 "2017-10-24T14:44:28Z")
Well, you have falsely cast blame for the Kansas situation on “liberals”. Why not explain who you are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/156 "2017-10-24T15:14:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, you have falsely cast blame for the Kansas situation on “liberals”. Why not explain who you are referring to? Where did he do that? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/157 "2017-10-24T15:21:18Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Ignoramus is a noun that can track accurately onto the real world. Is it name calling if it is a true description? > > It prompts the question, if HD would answer instead of telling us what they think: what is a liberal? One man’s true description is another’s name calling. And we hate name calling in Great Debates. We dislike people arguing against moderator instructions as well. Warning issued. Rein that in, right away. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/158 "2017-10-24T15:49:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where did he do that? He didn’t; he just dismissed claims that the Brownback-Kansas “experiment” in massive tax cuts has been disastrous as being something liberals think. As if that’s who makes up the state legislature that finally had enough and put a stop to it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/159 "2017-10-24T15:53:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where did he do that? I’m glad that you understood this, even though **Try2B Comprehensive** did not. > [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, you have falsely cast blame for the Kansas situation on “liberals”. Why not explain who you are referring to? I have not “falsely cast blame” on liberals for “the Kansas situation”. I said “Liberals seem to think it’s been the death knell for Kansas.” There’s no ‘blaming’ there, it’s merely making an observation about how they feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442/160 "2017-10-24T15:56:27Z")
What is \*your \*objective assessment of the facts in Kansas and their relation to recent tax policy, then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2017-2018-trump-gop-tax-plan/797442.md?page=9)