# The 24 Types of Libertarian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120 "2010-06-30T21:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/81 "2010-07-02T18:19:57Z")
> [@A.Selene](#): > > No, liberals have. **Liberal means free,** so liberals should stand for freedom, and in many ways they do. But in America, the majority of liberals also support an ever growing nanny-state, protectionism, gun control, restrictions on political speech, and on and on. > > If they weren’t so illiberal in so many ways, I’d gladly call myself a liberal. :dubious: No, it doesn’t. N.B.: “Liberal” != “Libertarian,” nor even small-l “libertarian.” The classical-liberal tradition of John Stuart Mill, et al., holds no copyright on the world “liberal.” Words change their meaning over time, **especially** in political discourse, and “liberal” as used in American political discourse today means “center-left,” and has at least since FDR was elected. **Liberal** has been reminded of all this many times but persisted in using his dishonest username. (Haven’t seen him around the boards lately . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/82 "2010-07-02T18:29:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: No, it doesn’t. N.B.: “Liberal” != “Libertarian,” nor even small-l “libertarian.” The classical-liberal tradition of John Stuart Mill, et al., holds no copyright on the world “liberal.” Right. ‘Liberal’ can mean ‘Libertarian’ again when we agree ‘Conservative’ means ‘Monarchist’. Also: Thomas Jefferson was a Libtard. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/83 "2010-07-02T18:31:14Z")
Don’t you mean Thomas Aquinas? ---
**Author:** ![Properties\_of\_Iron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7cd45c/32.png) [@Properties\_of\_Iron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Properties_of_Iron)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/84 "2010-07-02T19:28:19Z")
> [@palindromemordnilap](#): > > There’s a certain word starting with N that black people are allowed to say but white people are not. White people are perfectly allowed to say it. There is nothing stopping someone from saying, beside societal recourse from others, which is true of anything that is said. It is not illegal to say. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/85 "2010-07-03T08:18:23Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > Don’t you mean Thomas Aquinas? No, I mean Thomas Jefferson, the soft-headed Liberal who defied his lawful and divine Monarch due to nonsensical ideas and bleeding-heart compassion utterly contrary to a realistic worldview. He even denied the divinity of his Lord Jesus Christ! > [@Properties\_of\_Iron](#): > > White people are perfectly allowed to say it. There is nothing stopping someone from saying, beside societal recourse from others, which is true of anything that is said. It is not illegal to say. As proof: ‘nigger’. Now can we stop fetishizing the damn word? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/86 "2010-07-03T09:16:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: No, it doesn’t. N.B.: “Liberal” != “Libertarian,” nor even small-l “libertarian.” The classical-liberal tradition of John Stuart Mill, et al., holds no copyright on the world “liberal.” Words change their meaning over time, **especially** in political discourse, and “liberal” as used in American political discourse today means “center-left,” and has at least since FDR was elected. > > **Liberal** has been reminded of all this many times but persisted in using his dishonest username. (Haven’t seen him around the boards lately . . .) IIRC, the main reason he changed his name was because he believed people were making fun of him just because of his name. And, anyways, using the definition used by the rest of the world does not make one dishonest. Libertarianism may not mean the same thing as liberal, but it can be seen as a liberal philosophy, if you use the two-axis political system of liberal vs. totalitarian and progressive vs. conservative. A libertarian is a liberal conservative, while the American liberal is a liberal progressive. And let me point out I got this two-axis system from a Huffington post article, although I can’t seem to find it except in [comments](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Don_Quixote?action=comments). ---
**Author:** ![ChrisBooth12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@ChrisBooth12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChrisBooth12)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/87 "2010-07-03T16:54:25Z")
heh heh heh ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/88 "2010-07-03T21:50:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > IIRC, the main reason he changed his name was because he believed people were making fun of him just because of his name. > > And, anyways, using the definition used by the rest of the world does not make one dishonest. Libertarianism may not mean the same thing as liberal, but it can be seen as a liberal philosophy, if you use the two-axis political system of liberal vs. totalitarian and progressive vs. conservative. A libertarian is a liberal conservative, while the American liberal is a liberal progressive. > > And let me point out I got this two-axis system from a Huffington post article, although I can’t seem to find it except in [comments](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Don_Quixote?action=comments). Are you referring to the [Nolan Chart](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_Chart)? In the version on Wikipedia, what you’re calling “liberal” (opposite of totalitarian) is labeled “Libertarian.” Compare the [Pournelle Chart.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_chart) ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/89 "2010-07-04T23:12:59Z")
I just wish they had included the Self-Loathing Libertarian Federal Government Employee, because I know one. As the only self-proclaimed anarchist I’ve talked much with, he’s nevertheless anti-abortion, anti-same-sex-marriage, and shows no signs of actually quitting his government job and finding some other way to support his family of four. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/90 "2010-07-04T23:47:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well and good; but I can’t think the author would mind, or he would not have included a textual “script” under the cartoon (what else could it be used for?). Screen readers used by the blind/visually-impaired, so they can enjoy the cartoon too. A number of webcomics do this as well, because a screen reader can’t read the graphical text of the image file. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/91 "2010-07-04T23:52:05Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > IIRC, the main reason he changed his name was because he believed people were making fun of him just because of his name. No, he absolutely did it because he wanted to try to take back the word and insisted current liberals were not real liberals, yadda yadda. _That_ was what earned him the mockery. **Libertarian** is a libertarian, all fine and well, nothing to make fun of there, but when **Liberal** is a libertarian, that’s when the jokes about **Liberaltarian** and such started. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/92 "2010-07-05T00:58:21Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > I just wish they had included the Self-Loathing Libertarian Federal Government Employee, because I know one. > > As the only self-proclaimed anarchist I’ve talked much with, he’s nevertheless anti-abortion, anti-same-sex-marriage, and shows no signs of actually quitting his government job and finding some other way to support his family of four. Here’s another type - “The Recent Immigrant Who Is Trying Way Too Hard to be American” I’ve met a few foreigners who are so paranoid about their place in society that they overcompensate by jumping on the most uncompromising, right-wing bandwagon they can find. I met one such person who had the thickest Zsa Zsa Gabor accent, it was a little surreal ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/93 "2010-07-05T01:03:09Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > No, he absolutely did it because he wanted to try to take back the word and insisted current liberals were not real liberals, yadda yadda. Whatever that might be, it obviously was not dishonest. That and the OP are basically BrainGlutton’s thing; introduce some definitions he’s gotten off the Internet or read somewhere, and say “Here is a political definition. It is correct. Discuss (if in GD) or mock (if in the Pit.)” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/94 "2010-07-05T01:05:01Z")
> [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](#): > > I just wish they had included the Self-Loathing Libertarian Federal Government Employee, because I know one. > > As the only self-proclaimed anarchist I’ve talked much with, he’s nevertheless anti-abortion, anti-same-sex-marriage, and shows no signs of actually quitting his government job and finding some other way to support his family of four. > [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Here’s another type - “The Recent Immigrant Who Is Trying Way Too Hard to be American” > > I’ve met a few foreigners who are so paranoid about their place in society that they overcompensate by jumping on the most uncompromising, right-wing bandwagon they can find. I met one such person who had the thickest Zsa Zsa Gabor accent, it was a little surreal How about the “I Don’t Have the First Fucking Clue what a Libertarian is” Libertarian? Here’s a hint: one really can’t be a libertarian and an anarchist. And if someone embraces everything “right-wing,” they aren’t a libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/95 "2010-07-05T01:47:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Here’s another type - “The Recent Immigrant Who Is Trying Way Too Hard to be American” > > I’ve met a few foreigners who are so paranoid about their place in society that they overcompensate by jumping on the most uncompromising, right-wing bandwagon they can find. I met one such person who had the thickest Zsa Zsa Gabor accent, it was a little surreal I have to admit I’ve never encountered anyone like this. In my experience, somebody who feels insecure about their place in American society isn’t going to be out on the political fringe with the Libertarians. They’re going to be sitting in the middle, either among the most mainstream Democrats or Republicans depending on their local political situation. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/96 "2010-07-05T02:27:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I have to admit I’ve never encountered anyone like this. In my experience, somebody who feels insecure about their place in American society isn’t going to be out on the political fringe with the Libertarians. They’re going to be sitting in the middle, either among the most mainstream Democrats or Republicans depending on their local political situation. I think that’s what he meant. He thinks “libertarian” means “a hearty embracer of the Republicans.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/97 "2010-07-05T03:09:33Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Here’s another type - “The Recent Immigrant Who Is Trying Way Too Hard to be American” > > I’ve met a few foreigners who are so paranoid about their place in society that they overcompensate by jumping on the most uncompromising, right-wing bandwagon they can find. I met one such person who had the thickest Zsa Zsa Gabor accent, it was a little surreal Like [Orly Taitz?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_taitz) Arnold Schwarzenegger, OTOH, subverts this trope. A very moderate Republican. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/98 "2010-07-05T03:11:08Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Screen readers used by the blind/visually-impaired, so they can enjoy the cartoon too. A number of webcomics do this as well, because a screen reader can’t read the graphical text of the image file. Hm. Interesting to know. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/99 "2010-07-05T03:14:00Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I think that’s what he meant. He thinks “libertarian” means “a hearty embracer of the Republicans.” I was picturing a staunch right-winger when I said that. I know that ten years ago, Libertarians would have been a very distinct group (who liked PJ O’Rourke a lot as I recall). But honestly, over the last couple of years there’s been a lot more overlap and I’m not plugged into politics enough to really get it straight. So maybe I got my terms wrong. [QUOTE=] I have to admit I’ve never encountered anyone like this. In my experience, somebody who feels insecure about their place in American society isn’t going to be out on the political fringe with the Libertarians. They’re going to be sitting in the middle, either among the most mainstream Democrats or Republicans depending on their local political situation. [/QUOTE] I was talking about very right wing Republicans. (Should I ask for my post to be deleted?) I agree that most immigrants aren’t like this, especially in the big cities, but holy crap some of them certainly do exist out there. The ones I met were all either from Europe or Canada- the guy who really comes to mind was from Southampton, England. ---
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/100 "2010-07-05T03:15:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Like [Orly Taitz?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_taitz) Haha, good call. Not the same person I met, but exactly the TYPE. Mind you, I’ve met lots of Michael Moore quoting Euro creeps as well - so I’m not bashing the right wingers, I just find them more interesting in this context [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120.md?page=6)