# The 24 Types of Libertarian **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120 "2010-06-30T21:50:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/101 "2010-07-05T03:15:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Here’s a hint: one really can’t be a libertarian and an anarchist. [I know, I know.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12637854&postcount=10) [This ongoing GD thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=569599) BTW, is a good place to discuss the difference. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/102 "2010-07-05T03:17:48Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I think that’s what he meant. He thinks “libertarian” means “a hearty embracer of the Republicans.” See DENIAL-ICAN. 😉 “Just because I’ve voted Republican every election for 20 years is no reason to call me a Republican!” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/103 "2010-07-05T03:19:48Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That and the OP are basically BrainGlutton’s thing; introduce some definitions he’s gotten off the Internet or read somewhere, and say “Here is a political definition. It is correct. Discuss (if in GD) or mock (if in the Pit.)” Or maybe, as I **stated** in the OP, I just saw a chance to have some fun with the Libertarians in a half-Pittish sort of way. And, so far, fun it is! 😃 FTR, I look forward to a future where America has a proportional-representation system and Libertarians, elected **as** capital-L Libertarians, play a useful opposition role in every committee of every legislative body in America – never holding a majority or plurality (they never would), but always providing a sort of healthy skeptical acid-bath to every proposed program, tax, regulation or allocation. (Something Republicans cannot be counted on to do, it should by now be obvious.) And, between sessions, having nasty cloakroom hatesex with the Socialists. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/104 "2010-07-05T03:27:02Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > I was talking about very right wing Republicans. Those folks are not libertarians. A libertarian is someone who’s on the right on fiscal issues and on the left on social issues. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/105 "2010-07-05T04:30:04Z")
> [@](#): > > A libertarian is someone who’s on the right on fiscal issues and on the left on social issues. But isn’t committed enough to either position to do anything more than talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/106 "2010-07-05T13:45:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But isn’t committed enough to either position to do anything more than talk about it. Oooh, internet tough guy is tough. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/107 "2010-07-05T14:45:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > How about the “I Don’t Have the First Fucking Clue what a Libertarian is” Libertarian? > . Isn’t that pretty much the point of this comic? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/108 "2010-07-05T16:42:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Oooh, internet tough guy is tough. Well, what have Libertarians ever accomplished? Your hypothetical libertarian should either join the Republicans and get something done about fiscal issues or join the Democrats and get something done about social issues. Or vote for both parties in alternate elections. But being a Libertarian is the equivalent of doing nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/109 "2010-07-05T17:36:29Z")
What kind of libertarian would you call someone who says “how dare anyone tell me what I can’t do?” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/110 "2010-07-05T17:41:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Well, what have Libertarians ever accomplished? Your hypothetical libertarian should either join the Republicans and get something done about fiscal issues or join the Democrats and get something done about social issues. Or vote for both parties in alternate elections. But being a Libertarian is the equivalent of doing nothing. I agree, and all the same applies to the Greens. If anyone here wants third parties to matter on any scale larger than statewide elections, they need to start working for a major reform in how our elections work. Until and unless we do that, the Libertarians, Greens, Constitution, Natural Law, American Nazi, and whatever variety of Reform the squirrels have now are all becalmed in the same stagnant backwater. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/111 "2010-07-05T18:41:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Well, what have Libertarians ever accomplished? Your hypothetical libertarian should either join the Republicans and get something done about fiscal issues or join the Democrats and get something done about social issues. Or vote for both parties in alternate elections. But being a Libertarian is the equivalent of doing nothing. Wait, are you talking about Libertarians or libertarians? If you mean the latter, how do you know they aren’t already doing the things you think they should be doing? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/112 "2010-07-05T18:52:50Z")
How do I know Libertarians (or libertarians) aren’t getting anyone elected to office? Because I read a newspaper once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/113 "2010-07-05T19:02:39Z")
Oh wait, Libertarians do get elected to office after all. Here’s a list of the Libertarins who were elected in 2008 [cite](http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/2008/11/libertarians-elected-and-re-elected-to-office/): Bob Mills - Maine - Biddeford City Council Bruce Reichert - Florida - Collier County Soil & Water Board Seat 1 J. Adam Mitchell - Florida - Collier County Soil & Water Board Seat 4 Scott McPherson - Florida - New Port Richey Mayor Howard Horowitz - Florida - Palm Beach Soil & Water Conservation Group 4 Jack Tanner - Florida - Lee County Soil and Water Conservation District Seat 4 Jonathan Hall - California - Tehachapi-Cummings County Water District Supervisor Frank Manske - California - Mount Diablo Healthcare District Supervisor Kate O’Brien - California - Simi Valley Recreation and Parks District Supervisor Norm “Firecracker” Westwell - California - Ocean View School District Board of Trustees Tom Tryon - California - Calaveras County Supervisor, District 4 Brian Holtz - California - Purissima Hills Water District John Inks - California - Mountain View City Council John A Buttrick - Arizona - Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Peter Schmerl - Arizona - Green Valley Continental Elementary School Board District 39 Fredrick Campbell - Kansas - Anderson County Attorney Tracy Lunquist - Florida - West Volusia Hospital Authority Group A Seat 1 Jeff Hunt - Florida Duval County Soil & Water Board, Group 2 Mike Helms - North Carolina - Cabarrus County Board of Education Admittedly, nine of these nineteen people were running unopposed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/114 "2010-07-05T23:22:02Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > What kind of libertarian would you call someone who says “how dare anyone tell me what I can’t do?” The Plain Ol’ Jerkasstarian. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/115 "2010-07-06T02:19:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > How do I know Libertarians (or libertarians) aren’t getting anyone elected to office? Because I read a newspaper once in a while. So you don’t know the difference between a member of a political party and a person who holds a political philosophy. Way to go, tough guy. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/116 "2010-07-06T07:37:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > I am somewhat a libertarian and … I would like to ask anyone, what could you possibly disagree with this man about? He wants to send the troops home I disagree, Iraq might have been an optional war, Afghanistan was only optional if we are OK with Al Qaeda having a safe haven. > [@](#): > > eliminate the IRS This is probably the silliest idea he has. > [@](#): > > work towards a real currency backed by gold followed closely by this second silliest idea. > [@](#): > > release unwanted government regulations Yeah, we should get rid of all unwanted criminal statutes as well. If the last few years have taught us anything it is that self regulation simply does not work. > [@](#): > > would of allowed legal medical marijuana for patients Even a broken clock is right twice a day. > [@](#): > > The press hates him. The press loves him > [@](#): > > His own party hates him Well, this time apply the blind squirrel analogy to the Republicans. > [@](#): > > For example, abortion… prositution…Marijuana…Open immigration/closed immigration- Left Libs want open borders. LP is very pro gun and 2nd Amendment. Yeah but most people who have slapped on the badge of libertarian in the last 2 years (about half the tea party) fall on the same side of all these issues. > [@](#): > > I personally do not like guns and would like them illegalized or very controlled. Other free nations in the World like Canada. Britian, Australia, most nations in Europe do have sensible and very controlled firearms laws. Yeah they also have universal health care and a pretty socialist system. > [@](#): > > If there is a war, DECLARE the war and fight it to win and go home. OK fair enough. > [@](#): > > Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War I and II plus all the soldiers who have been killed in between, in actions without a declaration of war? Were none of these non-wars worth fighting? > [@](#): > > LP wants to be rid of the Federal Reserve and the IRS. The IRS is the KGB of the United States. There are other ways to pay taxes without requiring a thug organization like the IRS threaten financial ruin against any citizen. I don’t know why you call the IRS a thug organization but generally speaking, if we got rid of the IRS, our tax revenues would evaporate. > [@](#): > > LP wants to make Social Security voluntary or abolish it altogether. I dislike Social Security because of the fact that the government gives me a number, and takes part of my wages, money I will not see until I am 65. A 1970 $1 is worth 17 cents today. So I am getting a fraction back of what I put into the system, money that could be used now for economic growth. Yeah, that doesn’t sound like principle, that sounds like more “I don’t want to pay taxes” > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They figure that the government is the primary source of all kinds of problems and the solution is to abolish the government (or make it so weak that it’s ineffective). Their claim is that liberty throughout the land would be the result. You’re being generous by assuming all libertarians are unrealistic idealists, most of them are just greedy bastards. > [@](#): > > So if you want to maximize liberty in practice rather than in theory, you should support an effective government that is answerable to the people and has the power to protect their liberties. They are not as interested in increasing overall liberty as they are in increasing their own personal liberty (from the responsibilities of living in a society). > [@Xan](#): > > A system where there are two main parties who can gerrymander districts to their favor is not answerable to the people. And the answer is to lower taxes. > [@furt](#): > > You are aware that the vast majority of libertarians are pro-choice, right? :dubious: cite? > [@Merneith](#): > > it wouldn’t surprise me if the libertarians who are anti-choice were mostly republicans at heart. Lately I’ve come to the conclusion that ‘libertarian’ and ‘fiscal conservative’ are just labels which some repubs have adopted to try to distinguish themselves from the batshit wing without having to repudiate the republican party altogether. Its for people who don’t want to own up to the criticism they deserve for having supported Bush for 8 years. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > As with all political parties there are degrees of extremism. I’m a social liberal and an economic conservative. If there’s something other than ‘Libertarian’ that defines that, I’ll gladly switch titles. :3 Yeah its they’re called fiscally conservative Democrats. I don’t believe there is a large population of socially liberal Republicans and Libertarian means a lot more than economic conservativism. > [@A.Selene](#): > > Disclaimer: Yes, this is pie in the sky idealism, take to an extreme it would be anarchy, it wouldn’t work, (fill in objection here). I’m discussing ideals, and _not_ discussing how to translate those ideals in policy. > > Second Disclaimer: Yes, I do in fact support regulations of businesses. That pie in the sky idealism is what makes Libertarianism about as useful as Communism. Both of them only work if everyone buys into the same philosophy with almost religious zeal. > [@A.Selene](#): > > Right. Which is why, speaking for myself, I support a **strong** but _limited in scope_ central government. Government is essential to protect freedom. I hope I have never suggested otherwise. In my mind, a government should protect from that oppression or exploitation by the powerful, but enable as much choice as possible. (Recognizing that those choices will not always be good ones, yes.) OK then which part of government don’t you like? When I hear limited scope that almost automatically includes military and every alphabet soup agency in DC. Is it just an aversion to medicare and social security? > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Those folks are not libertarians. A libertarian is someone who’s on the right on fiscal issues and on the left on social issues. That sounds like a fiscally conservative Democrat to me (with the big differences being that fiscally conservative Democrats can get elected and can sometimes even effect changes that further fiscally conservative socially liberal objectives). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/117 "2010-07-06T13:52:15Z")
You act like a “libertarian” and a “fiscally conservative Democrat” are two entirely separate and distnct things. A person can be both of those, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/118 "2010-07-06T13:57:25Z")
Rand, what’s up with the “tough guy” stuff? I’m not getting any sense out of it. ME: I read newspapers. YOU: Oh, so tough guy reads newspapers. How does that connect? How do you get tough guy from newspaper reading? Something like pointy headed intellectual be more appropriate in that context. Or maybe accuse me of living in an ivory tower. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/119 "2010-07-06T17:02:56Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You act like a “libertarian” and a “fiscally conservative Democrat” are two entirely separate and distnct things. A person can be both of those, you know. Well I think a lot of it has to do with the perception that libertarians are small government Republicans in a Grover Norquist sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120/120 "2010-07-06T18:44:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well I think a lot of it has to do with the perception that libertarians are small government Republicans in a Grover Norquist sort of way. Right. Which is not even the same thing as “fiscal conservative.” In principle a fiscal conservative is hostile only to **deficit spending,** and would find big-government tolerable so long as taxes are high enough to support its cost on a year-to-year basis without borrowing. Ross Perot was a true fiscal conservative: He saw the deficit as Problem Number One, and his solution was to cut spending **and** raise taxes, at the same time, until it was eliminated. Didn’t get him far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-24-types-of-libertarian/545120.md?page=7)