# The 2nd Amendment-Keep, Fix or Dump **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 28, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256 "2011-01-28T00:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/1 "2011-01-28T00:56:36Z")
Please remember that this is a poll, not a debate. It is o.k. to ask for clarification, but please take the debating to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/2 "2011-01-28T00:58:15Z")
What’s to fix? Keep. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbazine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbazine/32/362_2.png) [@Bumbazine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbazine)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/3 "2011-01-28T01:05:40Z")
If I’m the one who gets to fix it, then ‘fix’, otherwise leave it alone. BTW, I think you’re overly optomistic if you think this isn’t going to turn into a great debate/trainwreck. ---
**Author:** ![Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prelude_to_Fascination)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/4 "2011-01-28T01:13:22Z")
In my perfect world, I’d fix it by updating it and clarifying it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/5 "2011-01-28T01:18:44Z")
I voted ‘fix’ but only because I get tired of the nitpicking merry-go-round that goes with it. My fix would be to keep it consistent with the recent Supreme Court rulings and firmly cement individual gun ownership rights in strong(er), more modern, language so that there is no reason for confusion. Under no circumstances should it be repealed but that isn’t going to happen anyway because of the impossible measures that would take. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/6 "2011-01-28T01:22:34Z")
Get rid of it, it’s an archaism that has been badly misinterpreted and causes little but harm, both to America and other nations that are subjected to our flood of guns. It endangers civil rights in general both by making it easy for the thug element to arm itself, and by serving as a distraction from the rights that actually matter. I find pretty consistently that people who support the Second Amendment have very little concern for anything or anyone else; they are willing to endanger themselves and others and to see every other civil right gutted if it means they can keep their precious guns. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/7 "2011-01-28T01:53:54Z")
Keep. I’ve lived in countries with restricted firearms. Crime sucks. Heck, I’ve lived in Michigan before it became a unified shall-issue state. Crime sucks a lot less now. FWIW, I don’t own a single firearm, but won’t sacrifice my right to do so if I want to. Which I might do. Saw a headline today that a single act by a single maniac is now provoking our government leaders to “solve the problem” which doesn’t really exist. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/8 "2011-01-28T02:02:00Z")
And by fix I mean clarify and by clarify I mean allow ownership of full auto to anyone qualified to own semi-autos. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/9 "2011-01-28T02:02:13Z")
The “thug element” doesn’t care about it. Loughner didn’t care about it. What would happen if guns were illegal and possession were subject to jail? If you’re going to murder, it seems trivial at that point, and banning them now won’t make them go away. And what **Shagnasty** said. ETA: You can own full auto it’s just a PITA, and nothing made after 1986. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/10 "2011-01-28T02:21:05Z")
I voted fix. My general theory is that a law-abiding US citizen should be able to own a gun if he or she wants to. But I don’t necessarily think it should be a casual thing you can just do on a whim. So I have no problem with things like background checks, mandatory training, etc… and I have a strong suspicion that the rabid opposition to such things in the modern US is not so much “wow it would be terrible if that were in effect” but “if we allow that, that’s step one down the slippery slope towards confiscation. So we must fight against that!”. (Not to say that that’s necessarily an irrational approach, btw.) I think that the more dangerous the weapon, the more it’s reasonable to be cautious before selling it to someone. So if I want to buy a single shot .22, it’s entirely reasonable to me that that be much easier than buying an AK-47. But if I’m a law abiding citizen and by gum I really really really want to own an AK-47, I should in fact have that right. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/11 "2011-01-28T02:30:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > \<…\> never mind. OP said no debate. I’ll have to default to “keep” because “fix” could mean “alter beyond recognition” in a way I wouldn’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/12 "2011-01-28T03:06:42Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > never mind. OP said no debate. Thank you(and everyone else so far). > [@Lumpy](#): > > I’ll have to default to “keep” because “fix” could mean “alter beyond recognition” in a way I wouldn’t like. I’m sort of hoping people who vote “fix” will clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/13 "2011-01-28T03:11:15Z")
> [@Bumbazine](#): > > BTW, I think you’re overly optimistic if you think this isn’t going to turn into a great debate/trainwreck. I think it might work out for awhile if some posters put their “Them thar’s fightin’ words!” attitude on hold. I’ve always been of the opinion that Dopers can rise to the occasion more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/14 "2011-01-28T04:13:16Z")
Didn’t vote on it. I simply don’t give a crap about guns or the 2nd amendment one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/15 "2011-01-28T04:18:11Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Didn’t vote on it. I simply don’t give a crap about guns or the 2nd amendment one way or the other. [Moderator Note]This is called “thread shitting”. Don’t do it again.[/Moderator Note] ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/16 "2011-01-28T04:23:02Z")
Voted Keep If Fix were the only option, it would be to require gun ownership, including frequent target shooting/training ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/17 "2011-01-28T04:32:56Z")
I voted “fix” in order to clarify language and settle the debate over the meaning once and for all. I’ve lived in countries with restricted gun laws, and I definitely came to a conclusion that I prefer a society where guns are restricted. However, maybe I’m a defeatist, but I think it’s too late for that here in the US, and I support the right to gun ownership (although I do not currently own a gun), as long as the right is well-regulated. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/18 "2011-01-28T04:40:07Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > What’s to fix? … > [@](#): > > Printz v. United States (1997) (opinion by Scalia) (Thomas, concurring) > > Our most recent treatment of the Second Amendment occurred in United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939), in which we reversed the District Court’s invalidation of the National Firearms Act, enacted in 1934. In Miller, we determined that the Second Amendment did not guarantee a citizen’s right to possess a sawed off shotgun because that weapon had not been shown to be “ordinary military equipment” that could “contribute to the common defense.” …[RIGHT][CITE](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller)[/RIGHT] Is a bayonet “ordinary military equipment”? Is a sword (historically) “ordinary military equipment”? Try walking down the main street of your town with one on your hip! FIX. CMC fnord! 1st & 2nd Amendment absolutist. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/19 "2011-01-28T04:43:53Z")
Fix, agreeing with **MaxTheVool** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256/20 "2011-01-28T05:31:11Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I voted fix. > > My general theory is that a law-abiding US citizen should be able to own a gun if he or she wants to. But I don’t necessarily think it should be a casual thing you can just do on a whim. So I have no problem with things like background checks, mandatory training, etc… and I have a strong suspicion that the rabid opposition to such things in the modern US is not so much “wow it would be terrible if that were in effect” but “if we allow that, that’s step one down the slippery slope towards confiscation. So we must fight against that!”. (Not to say that that’s necessarily an irrational approach, btw.) > I think that the more dangerous the weapon, the more it’s reasonable to be cautious before selling it to someone. So if I want to buy a single shot .22, it’s entirely reasonable to me that that be much easier than buying an AK-47. But if I’m a law abiding citizen and by gum I really really really want to own an AK-47, I should in fact have that right. And how would you phrase this “2nd Amendment 2.0”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-amendment-keep-fix-or-dump/569256.md?page=2)