# The 2nd Presidental Debate October 7, 2008 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785 "2008-10-07T02:35:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/1 "2008-10-07T02:35:27Z")
So let’s watch along and discuss the second presidential debate. So far, there haven’t been any knock down punches, and the wins haven’t been huge. Although Obama/Biden have ‘won’ the first 2, according to most poles. How will this one play out? Will the different format, a ‘Town Hall’ style play to each man’s strengths or weaknesses? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/2 "2008-10-07T02:42:30Z")
[The rules](http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/10/mccain_obama_deal_puts_limits.html) limit it some. > [@](#): > > Brokaw selects the questions to ask from written queries submitted prior to the debate, according to the “contract.” > > An audience member will not be allowed to switch questions. Under the deal, the moderator may not ask followups or make comments. The person who asks the question will not be allowed a follow-up either, and his or her microphone will be turned off after the question is read. A camera shot will only be shown of the person asking – not reacting. > > While there will be director’s chairs (with backs and foot rests), McCain and Obama will be allowed to stand – but they can’t roam past their “designated area” to be marked on the stage. McCain and Obama are not supposed to ask each other direct questions. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/3 "2008-10-07T02:57:26Z")
Sort of a pity. I liked the format of the last (Presidential) debate where the candidates were given time to respond to each other. These Town Hall things are usually pure artifice, though. There’s little point in having some random person read pre-selected question and then having his mic cut, it just gives a transparent illusion of public participation, and its only real effect is to leave time for fewer questions and allow the candidates to ignore each other even more. FWIW, McCain is supposedly very good at TownHall type forums, but I believe those are usually campaign stops where the candidate actually has some interaction and give-and-take with participants, so I don’t know how much of that will translate to this debate. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/4 "2008-10-07T03:14:18Z")
Wait a second. So, the moderator can’t ask questions, follow up, or make comments. The audience member can’t follow up or make comments, and the candidates can’t ask each other direct questions. How is that different from giving canned speaches interspersed with the other guy giving his canned speach? It doesn’t seem like a debate at all, to me. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/5 "2008-10-07T06:14:38Z")
Sounds like a waste of time. I want Barack to challenge McCain a little more this time, if only to see if McCain’s head explodes in white hot rage. Maybe Obama could challenge McCain: Let’s agree to drop the negative campaign ads. I’d love to see McCain’s response to that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/6 "2008-10-07T06:17:34Z")
> [@autz](#): > > Although Obama/Biden have ‘won’ the first 2, according to most poles. How do the czechs, hungarians, and estonians feel about it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/7 "2008-10-07T06:27:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > How do the czechs, hungarians, and estonians feel about it? They’re not Finnish watching them yet. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/8 "2008-10-07T08:38:31Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > How is that different from giving canned speaches interspersed with the other guy giving his canned speach? It doesn’t seem like a debate at all, to me. I think you’ve cracked the code. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/9 "2008-10-07T09:08:22Z")
I predict McCain will come out swinging and attempt to dirve the debate to “character” and “experience” – that is, he will follow his current campaign tactics by bringing up Obama’s ties to Ayers et al. This will hopefully give Obama a chance to clear the air once and for all (“I was 8 yrs old when Ayers did xyz”). Or he will remain on the defensive all night which will cost him. Obama will try to remain above the fray – this will be very difficult as McCain becomes increasingly desperate (as he is) to try to change the “dialogue” of the campaign and score points. It’s almost to the point where McCain has nothing to lose and will attack, attack, attack. So long as Obama brings it back to the economy and Bush’s terrible tenure he will win on points, but don’t expect a knockout. /my 2c ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/10 "2008-10-07T10:40:11Z")
> [@Santo\_Rugger](#): > > Wait a second. So, the moderator can’t ask questions, follow up, or make comments. The audience member can’t follow up or make comments, and the candidates can’t ask each other direct questions. How is that different from giving canned speaches interspersed with the other guy giving his canned speach?. Well, it’s at least slightly different in that they’re responding to questions, so their speeches can’t be totally canned. But yea, it’s not really a debate in the way most people would use the word. On the other hand, I predict that they will end up responding to each other, regardless of what the rules say. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/11 "2008-10-07T13:22:32Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I predict that they will end up responding to each other, regardless of what the rules say. They didn’t in the first “debate” despite the urging of the moderator.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/12 "2008-10-07T14:02:40Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They didn’t in the first “debate” despite the urging of the moderator.🙂 They resisted _talking_ to each other in the first debate, but they responded to each other plenty. Usually correcting something their opponent said about their own position. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/13 "2008-10-07T14:42:38Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Well, it’s at least slightly different in that they’re responding to questions, so their speeches can’t be totally canned. If there is anything a politician is good at it is barely answering a question and shifting to a prepared stump speech. With no one to hold their feet to the fire they will absolutely be free and clear to yap their mouths about whatever suits them. They will both do this although from watching the previous debates Obama/Biden seem a bit better at sort of sticking to the question. McCain/Palin barely bother at all. Hell, IIRC Palin pointed out she would answer questions her own way and not be forced into a discussion she did not want. > [@](#): > > **VP Debate Transcript** > > **IFILL:** Governor, Senator, neither of you really answered that last question about what you would do as vice president. I’m going to come back to that… > > \ > > **IFILL:** Governor, please if you want to respond to what he said about Senator McCain’s comments about health care? > > **PALIN:** I would like to respond about the tax increases. > > \ > > **IFILL:** Would you like to have an opportunity to answer that before we move on? > > **PALIN:** I’m still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I’m going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also. > > SOURCE: [Vice-Presidential Debate - Biden and Palin - Transcript - Election Guide 2008 - The New York Times](http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/president/debates/transcripts/vice-presidential-debate.html) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/14 "2008-10-07T16:12:40Z")
So is anyone getting their drink on tonight? Fair warning, don’t take a swig whenever you hear Wall Stree/Main Street. Alcohol poisoning is very serious. I’m betting McCain pulls out the “underdog” theme. He’s the underdog! It’s a team of maverick underdogs! They’re the plucky underdogs taking on the mean ol’ establishment in Warshington! I really hope that McCain doesn’t get the questions he wants and strains to work in his talking points anyway. It’ll be good sport to watch him squirm. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/15 "2008-10-07T16:29:15Z")
I’m guessing, at worst, a tie for Obama. Why? Because McCain is sort of screwed with the format. McCain loves him some town halls. All the media says that McCain shines at town halls. McCain’s best performances are town hall debates… Except this isn’t really a “town hall” except in name. So McCain is entering into a fairly standard style debate with raised expectations that he’s supposed to blow this one out with his town hall mojo. Provided Obama can at least hold his own and give back as well as he takes, people will be saying “Obama did well, even though it was a town hall – McCain’s best format!” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/16 "2008-10-07T16:31:21Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > So is anyone getting their drink on tonight? Fair warning, don’t take a swig whenever you hear Wall Stree/Main Street. Alcohol poisoning is very serious. > > I’m betting McCain pulls out the “underdog” theme. He’s the underdog! It’s a team of maverick underdogs! They’re the plucky underdogs taking on the mean ol’ establishment in Warshington! > > I really hope that McCain doesn’t get the questions he wants and strains to work in his talking points anyway. It’ll be good sport to watch him squirm. 😃 I’m off for the first half of tomorrow so I’ll be up with some cans of Guinness, Whiskey and a bong to keep me company. Talk to ya later 😉 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/17 "2008-10-07T17:36:04Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I’m guessing, at worst, a tie for Obama. > > Why? Because McCain is sort of screwed with the format. McCain loves him some town halls. All the media says that McCain shines at town halls. McCain’s best performances are town hall debates… > > Except this isn’t really a “town hall” except in name. So McCain is entering into a fairly standard style debate with raised expectations that he’s supposed to blow this one out with his town hall mojo. Provided Obama can at least hold his own and give back as well as he takes, people will be saying “Obama did well, even though it was a town hall – McCain’s best format!” Yes. McCain likes town hall meetings because he can (or could) create synergy with the audience–he wouldn’t be a bad preacher or con artist (in terms of this skill). He can read how an audience is moving and hit the buzz words. Given that there is no follow up etc, though, some of the give and play is gone. Also, he cannot dominate the stage by physically moving around (all the while saying “eh” and “my friends”–he sounds like an old fart now). Obama can’t upstage McCain either, but Obama can speak eloquently–he has less need to move around. I almost dread this tonight and the last one, too. I just want it over with. I don’t know if I can sit through another castigation session by Mr Honor and POW (cough, cough). I think Obama will do well, I just don’t want to sit through the BS, but like a bad car accident, I cannot look away… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/18 "2008-10-07T17:46:35Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Well, it’s at least slightly different in that they’re responding to questions A smooth politician can bring the response back to favorable talking points rather than the question without being noticed. A less smooth one coffsarahpalincoff can do so if she doesn’t mind being outragously blatant about it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/19 "2008-10-07T17:49:12Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > So is anyone getting their drink on tonight? Fair warning, don’t take a swig whenever you hear Wall Stree/Main Street. Alcohol poisoning is very serious. > > I’m betting McCain pulls out the “underdog” theme. He’s the underdog! It’s a team of maverick underdogs! They’re the plucky underdogs taking on the mean ol’ establishment in Warshington! > > I really hope that McCain doesn’t get the questions he wants and strains to work in his talking points anyway. It’ll be good sport to watch him squirm. 😃 You will probably pass out first. That is natures way of saying slow down. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785/20 "2008-10-07T17:50:48Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > I’m betting McCain pulls out the “underdog” theme. And now I’ve got “…Speed of lighting, power of thunder / Fighting all who rob or plunder…” stuck in my head. Thanks a lot. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-2nd-presidental-debate-october-7-2008/466785.md?page=2)