# The 3 decade US war on the middle east **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 11, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550 "2013-09-11T02:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/21 "2013-09-11T12:36:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And nuking the place would ruin all the beer and chocolate, so **what’s the point?** The point is that it would rid the world of a nation whose most famous cultural contribution is a statue [of a boy pissing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis). 🙂 Plus, it would make about as much sense as the OP’s wild assertion that Israel has bombed 14 Muslim countries just for fun. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/22 "2013-09-11T12:54:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Thanks in part to the actions of America and other outside powers making sure that tyranny flourishes and the chaos continues. While I think we’ve made plenty of mistakes, I think that region would have just as much tyranny and chaos were the US to isolate itself. There was plenty of chaos and tyranny there before the US (and other western powers) got involved, though the involvement has often been less than helpful. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/23 "2013-09-11T13:15:40Z")
Ah, another fine thread by friend Gack. Wonder how long until he tosses a witty rejoinder and exists, stage left? > [@](#): > > We live in a world turned upside down, where for a nation that has gone half-way around the world to attack defenseless countries and has killed over a million people is now threatening to attack yet another country to enforce international law. It can’t get any crazier than that, and yet, it’s the world we live in. Which defenseless countries did ‘we’ attack? > [@](#): > > In the last 3 decades the US, and its ally Israel has bombed 14 Muslim countries. If Obama and AIPAC get their way it will soon be 15. In addition the US has military bases in 19 countries in the region. To read more, and to see a map showing countires bombed and countries containing US military bases, see… So, you lump the US and Israel together to make your ‘3 decades US war on the middle east’ thing, and then toss in a drive by link to the fine publication of loonwatch (who’s inspiring byline is ‘the mooslims! they’re heeere!’), undoubtedly an upright and unbiased source that show a map painted in red and blue, with the red indicating countries that Israel ‘bombed’ (mostly in wars they fought by themselves against multiple ‘mooslim’ nations attacking them or planning to attack them) lumped together with countries the US (without Israel’s support) ‘bombed’, and the blue countries being places (such as Turkey) where the US has bases. I’m not sure why Iran is in there, but my guess is it’s in there because we MIGHT strike them sometimes, and they are ‘mooslims’ too so what the hell. And the OP wonders why he doesn’t get much support for his lofty positions outside of Der and a few others. 😛 > [@](#): > > I was out on a date the night when the video started coming in of US cruise missiles lighting up Baghdad like a pinball machine. It was unbelievable then, a war based on lies (that the Iraqi troops were massed on the SA border), against a country no one had heard of or cared about, and yet it immediately had the approval of the populace, at least to the extent of giving favorable responses to survey questions. That was the start of the real insanity, and it has continued to this day. This was during the First Gulf War. Leaving aside the ‘lies’ of Iraqi troops being on the Saudi border, the fact that the OP never heard of Kuwait (militantly unsurprising, considering the OP) doesn’t mean we should have done nothing about Iraq’s invasion and attempt at annexation of the country, especially considering that Kuwait had and has a large percentage of the regions oil reserves in it. Clearly the OP knows as much about this subject as he displayed in his masterful assertion, backed up by his obvious deep knowledge and technical wisdom that stealth technology doesn’t work and is all a boondoggle and a scam. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/24 "2013-09-11T13:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=BrokenBriton] The trouble is this kindergarden has a torturing, kidnapping, child-murdering, law-ignoring imperial fuckwit of a rogue state for a head teacher. [/QUOTE] Yeah, it’s a shame the Brits and French set it all up like that, innit? Bet you wish you guys could go back and hit the reset button and do a bit better of a job now, ehe? Sadly, the rest of us have to work with the mess as it is, not as it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/25 "2013-09-11T13:36:40Z")
Indeed, far better to ‘reset’ the mess it should have been. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Gack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecccb3/32.png) [@Gack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gack)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/26 "2013-09-11T13:38:58Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When in the last 30 years did Israel or the US bomb Jordan and Egypt? I’m not recalling those ones. I couldn’t confirm either after 5 minutes googling, maybe we have to go back to the Yom Kippur War. And, Syria was to be #15, oops. There are three perspectives - #1 - the US is fighting for truth, justice, and the American way #2 - for 30 years the US has been fighting Israel’s wars, and would you believe it, signs of fatigue are appearing, #3 - the is a quote from ‘The Day of the Saxon’ written in 1912, "There can be no retention of present British sovereignty without the repression of territorial and political expansion of other nations - a condition that must culminate in war, _‘one war in the Empire is destroyed, a series of wars if it is victorious’._ The Empire is no longer Britain alone, and it has never lost. Amazingly the Empire’s enemies have always been the embodiment of evil. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/27 "2013-09-11T13:41:24Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Indeed, far better to ‘reset’ the mess it should have been. Or something. Or, you could set up the mess then bow out and leave it all up to someone else to flail about in it. You can then kick back and watch, and eventually feel smug and superior about how badly they are fucking things up in the sand box you made. Works for the French. How’s that working out for you guys? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/28 "2013-09-11T13:49:51Z")
> [@Gack](#): > > #3 - the is a quote from ‘The Day of the Saxon’ written in 1912, > > "There can be no retention of present British sovereignty without the repression of territorial and political expansion of other nations - a condition that must culminate in war, _‘one war in the Empire is destroyed, a series of wars if it is victorious’._ > > The Empire is no longer Britain alone, and it has never lost. Amazingly the Empire’s enemies have always been the embodiment of evil. What does this have to do with the United States? I seem to recall there was a bit of a tiff a couple centuries ago when we left the Empire. It was in all the papers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/29 "2013-09-11T14:11:21Z")
I do thinks its adorable that Gack has decided that Lebanon is a “Muslim country.” That’s what happens when you get most of your news from the evil Jewish media. They’re so good they trick even the anti-Zionists with their propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/30 "2013-09-11T14:12:18Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > What does this have to do with the United States? I seem to recall there was a bit of a tiff a couple centuries ago when we left the Empire. It was in all the papers. Pssst! That’s the story people tell . . . Actually, in the late 18th Century, the King’s tax collectors just stopped coming around, nobody’s sure why; the prevailing theory is some bureaucratic mixup, each department thought some other was handling the colonies . . . Let’s not bring this to their attention, OK? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/31 "2013-09-11T14:59:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Pssst! That’s the story people tell . . . Actually, in the late 18th Century, the King’s tax collectors just stopped coming around, nobody’s sure why; the prevailing theory is some bureaucratic mixup, each department thought some other was handling the colonies . . . Let’s not bring this to their attention, OK? /Bob Slydell/ Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the _glitch_. So he won’t be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it’ll just work itself out naturally. /Bob Slydell/ ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/32 "2013-09-11T14:59:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Or, you could set up the mess then bow out and leave it all up to someone else to flail about in it. You can then kick back and watch, and eventually feel smug and superior about how badly they are fucking things up in the sand box you made. Works for the French. How’s that working out for you guys? So we’ve moved on from the kindergarden metaphor to … is it a ‘lazy work colleague’ metaphor, but somehow applied to historical abstract notions of imperialism? I do feel you’re onto something though, please expand. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/33 "2013-09-11T15:16:09Z")
Imagine how this thread would go if it were about US involvement in countries of Latin America. By the 3rd post it would turn into a debate about OP wrong spelling Guatamela or something :o ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/34 "2013-09-11T15:27:22Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Imagine how this thread would go if it were about US involvement in countries of Latin America. > > By the 3rd post it would turn into a debate about OP wrong spelling Guatamela or something :o What? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/35 "2013-09-11T15:40:23Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > What? Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/36 "2013-09-11T16:09:46Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > The point is that it would rid the world of a nation whose most famous cultural contribution is a statue [of a boy pissing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis). 🙂 I might add that it’s a TINY statue of a boy pissing. Smaller than a real boy old enough to stand up and pee would actually be. I wouldn’t miss Brussels, but I would miss Ghent and Bruges. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/37 "2013-09-11T16:33:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I wouldn’t miss Brussels, but I would miss Ghent and Bruges. Aw c’mon, Brussels has its charms - the Horta House, the Atomium and a number of lovely restaurants. And I can’t believe no one has mentioned frites yet! With a 1001 different sauces to choose from! ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/38 "2013-09-11T16:33:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Not true. Israel can turn Belgium into a parking lot if they wanted. They choose not to. Joking aside, Belgium is an ally of the US as a part of NATO. If for some bizarre reason Israel decided to attack Belgium tomorrow, it would be considered an attack upon all of the nations of NATO, including the US. If Syria decides to try its hand at invading Israel tomorrow, it would be starting its 5th or 6th war with Israel, depending upon if the fighting in 1982 in Lebanon counts as a war. If Syria decides to try to invade Turkey, it would be declaring war upon NATO, and the US 6th Fleet would be dropping bombs on Damascus before the day was out. > [@Gack](#): > > I couldn’t confirm either after 5 minutes googling, maybe we have to go back to the Yom Kippur War. You might want to reconsider your sources of information when they contain such clear falsehoods, and as I said, the war in 1973 was started by Egypt with a surprise attack on Israel. Oh, and a cite for the over one million people the US has killed in the Middle East would be nice. And while your at it, mind telling us when the US or Israel has bombed Iran? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/39 "2013-09-11T16:41:19Z")
There’s gotta be a way around that NATO thing to permit an Israeli attack on Belgium. That durn country has been at the center of two world wars - we wouldn’t even have had WWI without it and its “neutrality”. They’ve caused lots more trouble than they’re worth, plus they’re full of Walloons and other undesirables. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550/40 "2013-09-11T16:45:44Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > So we’ve moved on from the kindergarden metaphor to … is it a ‘lazy work colleague’ metaphor, but somehow applied to historical abstract notions of imperialism? > > I do feel you’re onto something though, please expand. I think it was a ‘let’s let some air out of the smug balloon’ metaphor. Seems to be working, as you are wandering onto gods know what track now, and you’ve trotted out the old standby of ‘please expand’. And now, back to what promises to be another interesting discussion…in the Chinese sense of the word. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-decade-us-war-on-the-middle-east/668550.md?page=3)