# The 3 Pillars of Enlightened Racism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065 "2003-07-03T16:56:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/81 "2003-07-08T00:13:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*Yes point two. Blacks are not as smart as whites. Of course this is not true on such a broad scale as represented by the OP. But the OP does mention test scores. It is no secret that for whatever reasons, blacks in America are not getting the education that others are. If racism is the caused for this it still wouldn’t change the facts now would it ? “Blacks aren’t as educated as whites but that is because of racism so really blacks should be considered as smart even though they really aren’t”. The levels of education are not equal. Needs attention, not rationalized away. \*\* Sorry **Hank** May I call you Hank, I couldn’t get back to this earlier. Thanks. Somebody touched on this a little further down, but no I don’t ascribe it merely to racism, but like crime seems more related to economics. I don’t know if all schools follow California’s model, but if they do then I wouldn’t be surprised if the results are similar. Oddly The Oakland Tribune ran a story on this very subject a week or so ago. It’s pretty lengthy but worth a read, you can find it [here](http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%257E28396%257E,00.html). ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Fescue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/49beb7/32.png) [@Hank\_Fescue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Fescue)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/82 "2003-07-08T03:25:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stuffy \* > \*\*Sorry **Hank** May I call you Hank, I couldn’t get back to this earlier. Thanks. Somebody touched on this a little further down, but no I don’t ascribe it merely to racism, but like crime seems more related to economics. I don’t know if all schools follow California’s model, but if they do then I wouldn’t be surprised if the results are similar. Oddly The Oakland Tribune ran a story on this very subject a week or so ago. It’s pretty lengthy but worth a read, you can find it [here](http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82%257E28396%257E,00.html). \*\* Good article. I guess the OP would think they are racist for pointing out that some kids aren’t getting the education they need. > [@](#): > > ``` > Victims Offenders > White Black Other White Black Other > > ``` > > All homicides 51.1% 46.7% 2.2% 46.4% 51.5% 2.0% > . [http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm) Thye department of justice figures on homocide reflect a gross despairity in homocides, both victims and offenders. While the total numbers are similar, you must consider that blacks are 12% of the population, committing 51.5 % of homocides. There is a problem here. Feel free to rationalize. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/83 "2003-07-08T03:46:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\* > > I dunno. I just quoted you so you wouldn’t think I was ignoring you. \*\* I don’t think you’re ignoring me; but quite frankly it does appear that you’re not particularly interested in considering evidence that might support something you don’t want to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/84 "2003-07-08T08:21:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*[http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm) > > Thye department of justice figures on homocide reflect a gross despairity in homocides, both victims and offenders. While the total numbers are similar, you must consider that blacks are 12% of the population, committing 51.5 % of homocides. There is a problem here. Feel free to rationalize. \*\* sure thing… [Different Worlds: Living in Poverty is Different for Whites and Blacks](http://www.poverty.smartlibrary.org/NewInterface/segment.cfm?segment=2087) > [@](#): > > In New York City, 70% of poor whites live in non-poverty neighborhoods > > In New York City, 70% of poor blacks live in poverty neighborhoods > [@](#): > > the worst urban contexts in which whites reside are considerably better off than the average context of black communities." ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/85 "2003-07-08T10:47:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*I don’t think you’re ignoring me; but quite frankly it does appear that you’re not particularly interested in considering evidence that might support something you don’t want to believe. \*\* From “I dunno” to “not particularly interested in considering evidence that might support something you don’t want to believe” is one mighty big leap. Try instead translating “I dunno” into “I don’t know” and continue on with your point. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/86 "2003-07-08T13:18:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hank Fescue \* > \*\*Yes point two. Blacks are not as smart as whites. Of course this is not true on such a broad scale as represented by the OP. But the OP does mention test scores. It is no secret that for whatever reasons, blacks in America are not getting the education that others are. If racism is the caused for this it still wouldn’t change the facts now would it ? “Blacks aren’t as educated as whites but that is because of racism so really blacks should be considered as smart even though they really aren’t”. The levels of education are not equal. Needs attention, not rationalized away. \*\* “Blacks score less on average than whites on the SAT” and “Blacks are stupider than whites” are two very different propositions. Asians outperform whites on SATs yet the sentiment “Whites aren’t as educated as Asians but that’s because of racism so really whites should be considered as smart as Asians even though they aren’t” never crossed anyone’s mind because no one has advanced the theory that whites are inherently stupid. What Enlightened Racist do is assume that the SAT gap is just a sign of inferior intelligence of a whole race while never assigning the same inferiority onto their own race. The one time this did happened in print (The Bell Curve) it was debunked so quickly it made everyone’s head spin. ---
**Author:** ![whatsallthisabout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb9ed0/32.png) [@whatsallthisabout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatsallthisabout)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/87 "2003-07-08T13:48:02Z")
Tee problem with this argument is that it will always be one-sided, as far as citing goes anyway. No one will ever be able to produce statistics to oppose the ones Biggirl has presented because to conduct those studies would be racist in itself. No one will ever receive funding to determine if blacks REALLY ARE less intelligent than whites. That would be a “racist” study. While the fact that 12% of the population commits 52% of the homicides is hard to believe, that in itself does not make the statistic false. It’s also hard to believe that the top 50% of the taxpayers pay 95% of the taxes (or whatever), but it’s true nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/88 "2003-07-08T14:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > **From “I dunno” to “not particularly interested in considering evidence that might support something you don’t want to believe” is one mighty big leap.** Well, it’s the most reasonable explanation I can think of. You were presented with victimization rates for murders in 2001. If you wanted more evidence, you could have said “Just one year’s rates for murders doesn’t establish things to my satisfaction.” Alternatively, if you disputed my claim about victimization, you could have said so. You could have conceded the point. Or you could have said “ok, it might very well be that black victimization rates are higher, but so what?” Instead, you chose a response that was not a response. But feel free to offer your own explanation as to why you basically did not respond. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/89 "2003-07-08T15:09:45Z")
**lucwarm** I was thinking of your figures last night and this morning, while the news was reporting on my city’s 57th & 58th (I think) homicides. In Oakland the vast majority (I’m thinking 80%, the Oakland Tribune ran a special feature in January after last years record homicide rate that I’m using for the basis of my hypothesis\* ) of murders have been drug/gang related. Fight’s over turf so to speak. I really don’t find your numbers too surprising. Many black communities like the flat lands of Oakland, have many areas of open-air drug dealing, and with it the accompanying jockeying for position. I’m not sure if that being the case it shows inherent criminality, rather than again being a function of the socio-economic conditions present. - I’ll try to dig that up if requested. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/90 "2003-07-08T15:20:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Biggirl \* > \*\*no one has advanced the theory that whites are inherently stupid. > > What Enlightened Racist do is assume that the SAT gap is just a sign of inferior intelligence of a whole race while never assigning the same inferiority onto their own race. \*\* I think that, in essence, you are incorrect here. I’ve seen the theory advanced that Orientals are ahead of whites in the intelligence department. Again, I’m not sure who you think is an “enlightened racist,” but I for one am willing to consider the possibility that Asians, on average, are inherently superior in intelligence to Whites. (And in case you care, I’m white.) ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065/91 "2003-07-08T15:41:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stuffy \* > \*\*I’m not sure if that being the case it shows inherent criminality, rather than again being a function of the socio-economic conditions present. \*\* Please keep in mind the reason I posted the statistics. I’m trying to establish that blacks commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in the US. Suprisingly (to me!), there are people here who won’t accept this. The question of causation – inherent criminality versus socio-economic conditions – is a tougher question. On that question, I’m happy to concede that socio-economic conditions may very well play a significant role. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-3-pillars-of-enlightened-racism/186065.md?page=4)