# The 50 Most Important Hollywood Films (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 17, 2002, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317 "2002-08-17T09:31:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/21 "2002-08-17T22:34:48Z")
A interesting list, Libertarian. I don’t agree with all your choices and comments, but you obviously put a lot of thought into both. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/22 "2002-08-17T23:20:00Z")
**Steamboat Willie** (1928) was not Walt Disney’s first cartoon, only his first sound cartoon. He had been making cartoons since 1922. **Sunrise** (1927) was not the"first ever to feature synchronized sound". D.W. Griffith’s **Dream Street** (1921) had two sound sequences recorded on Kellum Talking Picture discs, one with star Ralph Graves singing a love song, the other consisting of the shouts and whoops of a craps game. Griffith himself spoke in a prologue. The first sound-on-film score was Hugo Risenfeld’s music for Fritz Lang’s **Siegfried** (1922), recorded on Phonofilm for its presentation in New York in 1925. In 1926, Warner Bros.’ first Vitaphone feature was **Don Juan** , with music and sound effects on synchronized discs. While **The Squaw Man** (1914) was “Hollywood’s first feature length film”, that’s only in the narrow sense of being shot at a studio in the Hollywood district of the city of Los Angeles. The world’s first feature film (i.e., 40+ minutes) was **The Story of the Kelly Gang** (Australia, 1906). The first American feature film was **Oliver Twist** (1912). > [@](#): > > [The Birth of a Nation (1915)] was the first film with its own orchestral score, the first to use night photography, the first to use moving (or “panning”) camera shots, the first to use total screen close-ups, and much more. It even had a color sequence at the end. 1. The first film music to be specially composed for the screen was by Romolo Bacchini for **Malia dell’Oro** (Italy, 1906) and **Pierrot Innamorato** (Italy, 1906). The score for **The Birth of a Nation** was a pastiche of existing music. The first _original_ score to accompany an American production was by Victor Herbert for **The Fall of a Nation** (1916), Thomas Dixon’s sequel to **The Birth of a Nation**. 2. The first film shot at night was **Panorama of the Esplanade at Night** (1901), taken by Edwin S. Porter at the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo. The first feature film with outdoor scenes shot at night was **An Eye for an Eye** (1915), released in January 1915, several months before **The Birth of a Nation**. 3. The first known use of a camera dolly in a feature film was for a tracking shot in **The Twilight of a Woman’s Soul** (Russia, 1913). The Italian epic **Cabiria** (1914), a major influence on Griffith, also used several dolly shots. 4. Extreme close-ups were not unusual in film’s early years. For example, the fire alarm box being pulled in **The Life of an American Fireman** (1903), a young woman’s foot in **The Gay Shoe Clerk** (1903), and the contents of a jewel case in **The Great Jewel Mystery** (1905). Facial close-ups were used to introduce the title characters of **The Widow and the Only Man** (1904), and for reaction shots in the comedy **The Yale Laundry** (1907). 5. The color sequence at the end of **Birth of a Nation** is a tinted sequence, not a natural color sequence. Fact is, the entire movie was tinted – amber for daylight, blue for night – as was the custom in the silent era. > [@](#): > > [**The Big Parade**] was the first film to personalize war, and to juxtapose war and love. I refer you to **The Birth of a Nation** , Henry B. Walthall and Lillian Gish. > [@](#): > > [**The General** ’s] debut was decidedly unheralded, despite its unheard of $400,000 budget. Unprecedented for Buster Keaton, perhaps, but not for Hollywood in general. **A Daughter of the Gods** (1916) cost $1 million, **When Knighthood Was in Flower** (1922) cost $1.5 million, **The Ten Commandments** (1923) cost $1.8 million, **The Thief of Baghdad** (1924) cost $2 million, and **Ben Hur** (1925) cost $3.9 million. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/23 "2002-08-17T23:30:44Z")
**The Battle of Gettysburg** (1913) is a feature that was filmed in the Los Angeles area before **The Squaw Man** (1914). ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/24 "2002-08-17T23:45:05Z")
Amazing piece of work, **Lib**. I salute you. I saw _Birth of a Nation_ on home video. Griffith was definitely a racist, judging by that film. The video I saw was taken from a 1930 re-release and included a three-minute short of Griffith discussing the film with Walter Huston. Griffith says, at one point, “The Klan was needed in those days (Reconstruction). It served a purpose.” Anyone who defends the KKK is either racist or deluded to the point of madness. I pick the former since Griffith showed no other signs he was mad. Woodrow Wilson was racist, also. One of his acts as President was to segregate the federal government. African-American federal employees who protested were summarily fired. His wife was said to be even more racist than he.\* So I would take Wilson’s comments on how accurate the film was as history with a grain of salt. \*According to the book _Lies My Teacher Told Me_, by James W. Loewen. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/25 "2002-08-18T00:52:50Z")
Walt Disney’s first cartoon was _Little Red Riding Hood_. The first Mickey Cartoon made was _Plane Crazy_, which was originally silent (and can still be seen that way at the Mickey theater in Disneyland). _Steamboat Willie_ was the first Mickey Cartoon with synchronized sound, and was such a hit that Walt went back to _Plane Crazy_ and added Mickey and Minnie’s voices to it. I’d have put _Steamboat Willie_ on the list before _Snow White_. True, without the success of _Snow White_ the animated motion picture wouldn’t exist as it does today, but without the success of _Steamboat Willie_, and many that followed, there likely would have been no _Snow White_ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Edlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8797f3/32.png) [@Edlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/26 "2002-08-18T07:36:25Z")
Thanks, Nemo. 🙂 I’d say I spent, oh, more than five hundred hours on it. * * * Jab Thanks for the salute. It means a lot coming from you. Regarding Griffith, in my opinion, judging him today from where we sit as racist is like judging Isaac Newton to be ignorant of science. Believe it or not, the Klan was not always the lynch mob that it became. It began as a political group. Reconstruction was, in many ways, hard on the South. I’m not defending racism, but I am saying that Griffith’s comments to Huston can’t be contextualized in terms of today’s enlightenment. He put an awful lot into making _Intolerance_ (probably, he put too much, as the blurb says). But like I said, people didn’t hear it. They still don’t. * * * Walloon Good information, thanks. Of course, as I explained, this is dealing strictly with Hollywood films, and not Australian, or Italian, or east cost films or even films from near Los Angeles but outside Hollywood. Still, your information is interesting. With respect to _Steamboat Willie_, you’re right that I should have made that clarification. With respect to _Birth of a Nation_, my understanding is that it was two-tone color at the end. Is that wrong? * * * Number Six Good info on _Steamboat Willie_, thanks. I would have liked to have included short features, but I decided to stick with feature length films. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/27 "2002-08-18T07:37:43Z")
Sorry, folks. Obviously, that was I and not my wife. ---
**Author:** ![Seraphim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Seraphim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seraphim)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/28 "2002-08-18T11:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Rocky 1976, John G. Avildsen > > …The film grossed more than $100 million, making it the most profitable movie of all time. You should have included the Guinness book in your references. The most profitable movie of all time is Mad Max (1980), which also grossed over $100 million but only cost $350,000 to make. I get this from the 1999 edition. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/29 "2002-08-18T11:54:50Z")
Thanks, Seraphim. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/30 "2002-08-18T13:44:47Z")
friend libertarian, thank you. your time and effort in researching this paid off. i had looked for the attribution of the quote from apocalypse now before. i remembered the line, but not where i had heard it. thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/31 "2002-08-18T13:51:55Z")
Wow. Lots of reading to do. **Libertarian** that’s a lot of work. Thanks 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/32 "2002-08-19T09:33:26Z")
I’m delighted that y’all enjoyed it. I’m glad it was helpful to you, Longhair. You’re welcome, Yojimbo. Yes it really was a lot of work — between two and four hours a day since March. A good chunk of the time was decision making from the compiled list. There were so many films I wanted to include, and the honorable mention list is pretty long (as is the rejection list). For example, _American History X_ kept bubbling in and out of the thing because of what it did to Alan Smitheeing. But in the end, although the Alan Smithee concept is well known among filmmakers, there wasn’t quite the outreach to society that would merit inclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Fingolfin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@Fingolfin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fingolfin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/33 "2002-08-19T12:40:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Seraphim \* > \*\* > > You should have included the Guinness book in your references. The most profitable movie of all time is Mad Max (1980), which also grossed over $100 million but only cost $350,000 to make. I get this from the 1999 edition. \*\* **The Blair Witch Project** is the most profitable film of all time. With a budget of $60,000, the film has grossed over $140 million at the box office alone! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/34 "2002-08-19T20:14:16Z")
I’ll approach the arguments in a separate post (weekend w/the family prevented me from posting earlier), but much thanks to **Walloon** for nailing many of the early cinema inaccuracies (not to mention DoctorJ & Figolfin): **#43** : _Ben-Hur_ won 11 Oscars, not 12. **#42** : If you’re talking pure grosses, _The Fourhorsemen of the Apocalypse_ eclipses _The Big Parade_ financially. If you’re talking profits (gross - expenses) than _TBP_ doesn’t come close to many cheaper productions. **#39** : Orson Welles never won a Best Actor Oscar and neither Charlie Chaplin nor Stallone won Actor or Screenplay Oscars. **#30** : Elvis Presley, an established rock/pop artist, had over 20 films featuring a soundtrack of his music under his belt before _The Graduate_ came out. And don’t forget the Beatles’ movies and such films as _Rock Around the Clock_ and _Rock, Rock, Rock_. **#29** : Both Faye Dunaway and Gene Hackman appeared in films before _Bonnie and Clyde_ **#18** : Given that the Fred & Ginger’s debut sensation _Flying Down to Rio_ also came out in 1933, I would dispute that _King Kong_ “single-handedly” saved the studio. **#17** : The MPAA does not host the Oscars, the AMPAS does. The MPAA did not exist for another 35+ years. **#7** : _GWTW_ received 13 Oscar nominations, not 15. Honorary awards are not the same as nominations. **#2** : _Streetcar_ received 4 acting nominations **#1** : _Birht_ had no color sequences that weren’t a product of tinting & toning. I’ll be back… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/35 "2002-08-19T21:47:21Z")
ArchiveGuy Wow! Thanks for your great diligence! > [@](#): > > but much thanks to Walloon for nailing many of the early cinema inaccuracies With all due respect, as I pointed out, I wasn’t doing Italian or Australian films or films that were made somewhere close to Hollywood. Firsts, and so forth, refered to firsts for Hollywood. (That’s why no Black film until 1969, for example.) His _Steamboat Willie_ correction was helpful, and the only other relevant comment was about _Birth of a Nation_ color, which seems to be somewhat controversial. > [@](#): > > #43: Ben-Hur won 11 Oscars, not 12. Right. I should have said it was _nominated_ for 12, not that it _won_ 12. > [@](#): > > #42: If you’re talking pure grosses, The Fourhorsemen of the Apocalypse eclipses The Big Parade financially. If you’re talking profits (gross - expenses) than TBP doesn’t come close to many cheaper productions. Are you sure your sources are listing the roadshow income? According to [Cinema Web](http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/bookshelf/31_rs_1.htm), what the _The Big Parade_ grossed represented a third of the earnings of the entire industry in 1925. > [@](#): > > #39: Orson Welles never won a Best Actor Oscar and neither Charlie Chaplin nor Stallone won Actor or Screenplay Oscars. Gah! Once again, I should have said _nominated_, not won. They were all nominated. > [@](#): > > #30: Elvis Presley, an established rock/pop artist, had over 20 films featuring a soundtrack of his music under his belt before The Graduate came out. And don’t forget the Beatles’ movies and such films as Rock Around the Clock and Rock, Rock, Rock. Oh, sure. But I think that by “soundtrack”, they meant an album produced from the film. > [@](#): > > #29: Both Faye Dunaway and Gene Hackman appeared in films before Bonnie and Clyde. The only two that I could find for Faye Dunaway were _The Happening_ and _Hurry Sundown_, both released the same year as _Bonnie and Clyde_. You’re right that Hackman had appeared in other films (four total, I think), but he was practically unknown until _B&C_. > [@](#): > > #18: Given that the Fred & Ginger’s debut sensation Flying Down to Rio also came out in 1933, I would dispute that King Kong “single-handedly” saved the studio. My source on that was [TVGuide Online](http://www.tvguide.entertainment.aol.com/movies/database/ShowMovie.asp?MI=3139). It said, "On its initial release, at the height of the Great Depression, KING KONG grossed $1,761,000 and by itself saved the studio that produced it [RKO] from bankruptcy. " > [@](#): > > #17: The MPAA does not host the Oscars, the AMPAS does. The MPAA did not exist for another 35+ years. Egad! You’re right, of course. I even listed the AMPAS as a source. Thanks for catching that one. > [@](#): > > #7: GWTW received 13 Oscar nominations, not 15. Honorary awards are not the same as nominations. Well, yeah, you’re right. I should have listed those separately, I suppose, rather than as a parenthetical. > [@](#): > > #2: Streetcar received 4 acting nominations Yep. This time I reversed it the other way. I should have said that it _won_ 3 acting awards: Best Actress for Vivien Leigh, Best Supporting Actress for Kim Hunter, and Best Supporting Actor for Karl Malden. > [@](#): > > #1: Birht had no color sequences that weren’t a product of tinting & toning. The sources I consulted say that Frank Woods, who had seen the Kinemacolor footage from the 1911 abandoned _The Clansman_, oversaw the Max Handschiegl hand color engraving process for the 1915 release. > [@](#): > > I’ll be back… Great, thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/36 "2002-08-19T21:49:49Z")
From **Lib** ’s _The Sound of Music_ entry: > [@](#): > > You just know that a movie is influential when it can be recognized by almost anyone from a word like “supercalifragilisticexpialidocious”. You’re right. However, that film is _Mary Poppins_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/37 "2002-08-19T23:36:05Z")
Oh, crap. I see now that **DoctorJ** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/38 "2002-08-19T23:57:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > > **39. Rocky** _1976, John G. Avildsen_ > > … In an era of malaise and war guilt, this feel-good movie about triumph against adversity, where David beats Goliath, and the good guy wins, simply was a remarkable example of being in the right place at the right time. At the end of the movie, Rocky loses the big fight. The hero loses at the end of all the great sports movies. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/39 "2002-08-20T06:53:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fingolfin \* > \*\* > > **The Blair Witch Project** is the most profitable film of all time. With a budget of $60,000, the film has grossed over $140 million at the box office alone! \*\* According to IMDB, the budget was only $35,000. With the $140 million gross, that makes profits of 400,000%!! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2002, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317/40 "2002-08-20T09:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > At the end of the movie, Rocky loses the big fight. The hero loses at the end of all the great sports movies. But Rocky didn’t really lose, and that’s the whole point. Rocky lost the fight, yes, in a manner similar to the way that Wepner lost to Ali, going far beyond anyone’s expectations and losing by a close decision. Remember that it was “the greatest exhibition of guts and stamina in the history of the ring”. His victory was encapsulated by the ending scene of Rocky and Adrian, locked in an embrace and declaring their love for one another. Still, your point is technically valid. The metaphor of David beating Goliath was ill-chosen. But the one about the good guy winning still stands: in every great sports movie, they hero gets the girl. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-50-most-important-hollywood-films-spoilers/124317.md?page=3)