# "The 7 astronauts are in Hell." You can probably guess who said it.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 3, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476 "2003-02-03T12:21:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/21 "2003-02-03T14:40:31Z")
yes they’re real, no, except for his extended family.
---
### Author:  [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/22 "2003-02-03T14:43:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \*
> \*\*Now it seems to me that if God was really blowing things up to get back at the homos, the CN Tower and the North Sea Reclamation Works would have been the first to go, right? (A giant phallic symbol and a bunch of dykes, even!) \*\*
Hey, get yer paws off our dykes, dammit!
Funny you should mention the dykes. This weekend marked the 50th aniversary of the [Big Flood of February 1953](http://people.zeelandnet.nl/voeveren/inleiding%20rampE.htm), where in a freak storm, the dykes gave way, flooding almost the entire province of Zeeland, and parts of Zuid-Holland and Noord-Brabant. The flood took over 1,800 lives, and left many more homeless.
Reverends in the villages that lost half their population sometimes STILL had the fucking nerve to preach that the flood was God’s wrath. Remember, these were estremely religious villages in rural Netherlands of 1953. I doubt there was a lot of weed smoking and whore banging going on back then. Let alone fags!
It just goes to show: evil comes in many forms, and at times it hides as religion. No offense to any true Christians reading this - they know who they are, and would undoubtedly agree that Phelps and his ilk do NOT represent Chrisitanity as a whole.
---
### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/23 "2003-02-03T14:49:57Z")
Usually, when Phred spews his bilge, I can at least follow his logic. That logic is tenuous and usually eye-rollingly ridiculous, but it does create a tenuous connection between the hellbound sinner/sinners in question and faggotry.
Here, though, I’m at a loss. I can understand why he believes God smote the Columbia in retribution against our fag-enabling nation. (It’s horseshit, but I understand it.) What I don’t understand is why that necessarily means the astronauts are going to hell. I mean, none of them was gay to my knowledge, and for all Phred knows they may have been just as strongly opposed to faggotry as he is (and as he claims God is). (I doubt it, of course.)
Fred Phelps is one of very few human beings on this planet that I have no use for. When he dies, I will not be saddened.
---
### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/24 "2003-02-03T14:53:05Z")
Jumping Jesus in Jeri Ryan’s Jumpsuit! What an asshole!
---
### Author:  [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/25 "2003-02-03T14:54:08Z")
Well, I was just moved to say a short prayer:
“Dear Lord, please save Fred Phelps’ soul from hell.”
Because I think he’s beyond any mortal help … What must it be like, to be that man? I can hardly imagine anything more horrible than having to view the world through his eyes.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/26 "2003-02-03T14:57:23Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \*
> \*\*Now it seems to me that if God was really blowing things up to get back at the homos, the CN Tower and the North Sea Reclamation Works would have been the first to go, right? (A giant phallic symbol and a bunch of dykes, even!) \*\*
If you blow up the CN Tower, ya gotta blow up the Skydome too. It’s the vagina symbol to go with the CN Tower.
No, stop laughing. Find a picture of them. It’s true. If the dome was open and everyone in the upper deck wore fur coats it would look like the world’s largest hoochie. It’s no coincidence that the Jumbotron is right where the clitoris should be. Phallus and vagina, right next to each other. It’s a gigantic, million-ton fertility symbol. I’m not sure if it’s disgusting or really cool.
However, I’ll say one thing for Fred Phelps; the man knows how to come up with excellent names for rock bands:
\*\*Fagjunk Theology
\*\*or just \*\*Fagjunk
Idolatrous Nation
The Sodomite Propagandists
Adumbration\*\*
Wouldn’t you buy a record by “Fagjunk”? I know I would. The world needs a really wicked gay-punk-sacreligious-imagery band.
---
### Author:  [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/27 "2003-02-03T15:03:41Z")
Has anyone started to guess that maybe, just maybe, Phelps is pulling our legs here? I mean, I would guess that the man has no love for gay people, but knowing how he makes his living I can see why he’d spout nonsense just to make people mad.
“Any other interpretation of the tragic events of Feb. 1 is rank atheism and fagjunk theology by sodomite propagandists.” … Does that make Phelps the one true prophet of God? No other interpretations? How could he make that claim plausible even to other radical right Christians?
---
### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/28 "2003-02-03T15:09:10Z")
Yeah, but old Fred condemns everyone to hell. You know, there was a time when a religious leader threatening damnation meant something. The pope issued an excommunication, the Ayatollah issued a fatwa on Rushdie, and it was a big deal, but for Fred, it’s a kind of religious Tourette’s. He’s ruining the whole damnation process.
---
### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/29 "2003-02-03T15:11:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Xerxes \*
> \*\*I hadn’t previously heard of this raving lunatic before today. And today I wish I still hadn’t.
>
> I’m almost afraid to ask, but… the header of the pdf includes the words ‘Westboro Baptist Church’; is this for real? Does this shit-for-brains have a following? (If the answers are yes and yes I think I’m just going to end it now). \*\*
Phelps earned quite a bit of notoriety after Matthew Sheppard was killed in a very gay-bashing that was so brutal and cruel that it earned international attention (I’m a skinny 5’4" female – Matthew Sheppard was even smaller than me. He was tortured pistol whipped and tied to a fence-post where he was left to die).
Yes, he has a following. They spend a lot of time picketing the funerals of dead homosexuals (like Matthew Sheppard), or dead suspected homosexuals with their, “God hates fags!” and “He’s gone straight to hell” signs. During the trial of Mattehw Sheppard’s killers, his church had organized a “God hates fags” protest on the courthouse steps in support of the killers.
In a remarkable display of compassion and humanity, a separate “good Christian group” calling themselves “Angels of Peace” (IIRC), built themselves wings and passively counter-protested Phelps by raising their wings up to block the media’s view of Phelps and his group – interfering with the national press coverage he was trying so hard to get.
His comments on the Coulmbia disaster leave me speechless. Just when you think he can’t sink any lower… _shaking head in disbelief_
---
### Author:  [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/30 "2003-02-03T15:22:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Kantalooppi \*
> \*\*Actually, I didn’t guess who said it - my guess were the radical Moslem teenagers at [ClearGuidance.](http://forums.clearguidance.com/) But yeah, Fred Phelps would probably have been the second guess. \*\*
Do NOT think these twits represent the majority of muslims. I wouldn’t even call them fundamentalists, as they ignore large chunks of the Quran in favor of their silly interpretations.
Every religion has their Fred Phelps’s.
Hijack ended
Martin
---
### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/31 "2003-02-03T15:40:28Z")
But appreciated.
I never did quite get what the shuttle folks had done to earn the damnation. Anyone want to clarify?
---
### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/32 "2003-02-03T15:46:10Z")
Musing…
Come to think of it, Phelps has really lost all ability to offend me. Several years ago I went to take a look at his website – it had and animated gif of Matthew Sheppard’s head bobbing in hellfire. If you mouseover the gif, Sheppard’s mouth opens à la David Hasselhoff on _South Park_ and a voice shriek’s “for God’s sake, listen to Phelps.” It was so over-the-top in juvenile ridiculouslness, that Phelps just no longer has enough credibility as a spewer of hatred to even motivate me to muster some vague indignation.
It would be like having Bozo the Clown or Homer Simpson standing in front of you, pointing at you and chanting: “You are a stupidhead!.. You are a stupidhead!..”
His ranting is just so childish and silly that I just can’t take it seriously enough to be the slightest bit perturbed by it. (Though I kind of like the phrase “Fagjunk Theology.”)
---
### Author:  [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/33 "2003-02-03T15:46:35Z")
Do we have to share humanity with this asshammer?
---
### Author:  [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/34 "2003-02-03T15:52:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \*
> \*\*But appreciated.
>
> I never did quite get what the shuttle folks had done to earn the damnation. Anyone want to clarify? \*\*
They didn’t do anything. It is _America_ that is being punished. God just made an example of them because they are a part of the whole fag-enabling system, dontcha know.
You know what Phelps is missing? That “Haw! Haw! Haw!..” Jack Chick laughter. Hmm. Definitley.
---
### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/35 "2003-02-03T15:54:20Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \*
> \*\*I never did quite get what the shuttle folks had done to earn the damnation. Anyone want to clarify? \*\*
The shuttle is a symbol of sodomite hubris? Or something?
---
### Author:  [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/36 "2003-02-03T15:59:34Z")
God is good.
The Devil is bad.
So, how come when something bad happens, God takes the fall for it?
Nobody ever blames the Devil for anything. It’s always “God’s will”.
Fuck that. It was the Devil what done it, and that’s final.
---
### Author:  [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/37 "2003-02-03T16:05:01Z")
If you were someone who “Reverend” Phelps believed was _not_ bound for Hell, then you would have some problems.
---
### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/38 "2003-02-03T16:15:29Z")
Fred and his friends shouldn’t bother us for much longer – I put a [death curse](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5017/5017_01.asp) on them.
:dubious: 😃
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/39 "2003-02-03T16:24:39Z")
When Freddy-boy finally departs the living, he’ll probably end up in a special secion of heaven where he’ll be all alone. “Hey,” he’ll ask, “where is everybody?” The response will be, “In hell, right where you put them.”
---
### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476/40 "2003-02-03T16:26:10Z")
Eh, if it’s a legpull, it’s a “whoosh” the size of the Starship Enterprise.
No, he’s for real, bad cess to 'im.
> **[Called to Hate?](https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1999/october25/9tc088.html)**
>
> How antihomosexual crusader Fred Phelps discredits the church
> [@](#):
>
> It is hard to get a clear picture of who and how many Fred Phelps leads. There are about 200 irregular visitors on the Westboro Baptist Church membership roll, but most of the 70 faithful attenders belong to the extended Phelps family of 13 adult children and 48 grandchildren.
>
> “People always say ‘you go to church with your family’ like it’s a bad thing,” says Phelps’s grandson Ben, 24, developer of [www.godhatesfags.com](http://www.godhatesfags.com), the church’s official Web site. “Noah and Lot only worshiped with their families. That’s biblical to me.”
>
> Ben admires his 70-year-old grandfather as someone with great knowledge of the Bible, and he wishes that “people would understand the whole message.”
>
> \< snip \>
>
> Westboro Baptist outlines other points of its theology on the Internet. The church identifies itself as an “old time” or primitive Baptist congregation, where only the King James Version of the Bible is seen as trustworthy and where women cover their heads in church. The doctrine of predestination is strongly emphasized, and Arminians are denounced as “the apostate church.”
>
> Another unusual theological side note is the church’s dating of Sodom and Gomorrah’s destruction—an event Phelps references often—as occuring in 1898 B.C.
>
> \< snip \>
>
> This cause follows a long line of issues Phelps has sought to publicize since those early revival days. In 1947, at the age of 18, Phelps felt God directing him to preach against the fetishes of Ute and Navajo Native Americans. In 1951, Phelps had moved on to a new cause when he captured the attention of Time magazine with his brimstone preaching against petting and lust at John Muir College in Pasadena, California.
>
> \< snip \>
>
> Phelps’s love of controversy and need for attention are only part of the force that drives his protests. At the root of his proclamations lies a bedrock belief that he should preach hate because “the Bible preaches hate. For every one verse about God’s love, mercy, and compassion, there are two verses about his vengeance, hatred, and wrath. What you need to hear is that God hates people, and that your chances of going to heaven are nonexistent unless you repent.”
Westboro Baptist’s statement of belief (note: There’s another “Westboro Baptist Church” in Ottawa, Canada, so you have to make sure that you get the Topeka, Kansas church.)
[http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/aboutwbc.html](http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/aboutwbc.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Established in 1955 by Pastor Fred Phelps, the Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas still exists today as an Old School (or, Primitive) Baptist Church. In short, we adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery, sodomy), and insist that the doctrines of grace be taught publicly to all men. These doctrines of grace were well summed up by John Calvin in his 5 points of Calvinism: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints.
>
> Although these doctrines are almost universally hated today, they were once loved and believed. For example, Augustine (one of the early Church fathers), Martin Luther (the founder of the Lutheran Church), John Knox (the founder of the Presbyterian Church), Augustus Toplady (hymnist and leader in the Episcopal Church), Charles Spurgeon (a well-known preacher), John Leland (who was partially responsible for our First Amendment in the United States), and Abraham Lincoln (raised in a tiny Old School Baptist church) are just a few examples of people who have advanced these ideas.
>
> Please see The Doctrine of Absolute Predestination by Jerom Zanchius and our MEMO ON THE CHURCH. Most of the major Confessions of Faith throughout the history of the New Testament Church have also advanced these ideas.
>
> So, even though the Arminian lies that “God loves everyone” and “Jesus died for everyone” are being taught from nearly every pulpit in this generation, this hasn’t always been the case. In fact, if you are in a Church that supposedly believes the Bible, and you are hearing these lies, then your church has apostatized. If you are interested in this subject, we encourage you to do some independent research on the history of the Church from Adam to now and, more importantly, we encourage you to carefully read the entire Bible.
>
> WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, etc.
>
> Perceiving the modern militant homosexual movement to pose a clear and present danger to the survival of America, exposing our nation to the wrath of God as in 1898 B.C. at Sodom and Gomorrah, WBC has conducted over 22,000 such demonstrations during the last twelve years at homosexual parades and other events (including funerals of impenitent sodomites, like Matthew Shepard). WBC teams have picketed all over the United States, and internationally (including Canada and Iraq). The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received international attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be this world’s last hope.
[sigh] Gotta love someone who’s still fighting the “Arminian heresy”. :rolleyes:
[http://gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian.stm](http://gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/arminian.stm)
[http://www.byronbible.org/ask/man/arminian2.html](http://www.byronbible.org/ask/man/arminian2.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Arminian doctrine is the term for a theological stance originating with James Arminius - a contemporary of John Calvin. His views include:
>
> 1). “Conditional Predestination” - which basically states that God predestines those He knows ahead of time will accept him; whereas Calvin taught an unconditional election;
>
> 2). “Free Will of Man” - a teaching that says that man is a free moral agent can actually choose God;
>
> 3). Unlimited Atonement - a teaching that Christ died for more than just the elect;
>
> 4). Resistible Grace - a teaching that says that since man is a free moral agent, if God calls him specifically to salvation, he can say no to God. and
>
> 1.
> - the most radical and troubling of all arminian doctrine: a teaching that you can lose your salvation, totally rejecting eternal security. They believe that you must live righteously if you are to retain your saved state. Through sin, a person who was once saved can lose it and be damned. This clearly violates the teachings of God’s Word.
I’m amazed that someone who is so obsessed with homosexuality has _time_ to stop and dally with such esoteric fine points of sectarian Protestant theology.
I’m also amazed at someone who thinks that picketing Bill Clinton’s mother’s funeral with signs reading “FAGS BURN IN HELL” counts as a “peaceful sidewalk demonstration”.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-7-astronauts-are-in-hell-you-can-probably-guess-who-said-it/152476.md?page=3)