# The 9/11 Scream Therapy Thread. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016 "2019-09-10T23:29:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/41 "2019-09-12T04:39:48Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > [Salafism does indeed have its roots in 18th-Century Wahhabism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement) Partly; it also has roots in the late 19th-century historical and political circumstances surrounding the emergence of Salafism in late 19th-century Egypt, which definitely **were** influenced by modern western culture. I don’t think it’s really valid to try to claim that any modern ideology literally “predates” the modern world, rather than simply having some historical influences from before the modern world. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/42 "2019-09-12T04:45:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I don’t know exactly what you mean by “relevant” . . . I mean, presenting a serious threat to the global political order. Fukuyama is right if you take the long view – we’re not at the “end of history” yet, but you can see it on the horizon. I don’t expect Hindutva, Le Front National, etc., to have much staying power, and anti-vaxxism is but a blip on the screen, no existential threat to any society, no more so than the Hard Greens. Salafism, OTOH, has deeper roots in the affected cultures, and meshes better with their saner dominant paradigms. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/43 "2019-09-12T04:46:30Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > In the above terms: > Romanticism = Rousseau, etc., through fascism – a counter-Enlightenment attitude. > Supernaturalism = 19th-Century throne-and-altar reactionary conservatism, radical Islamism, and analogous movements in modern Christian societies (mostly Protestant) – neither pro- nor anti-Enlightenment, but a **pre** -Enlightenment attitude. Meh, I think it’s unpersuasive to argue for a strict division between “romanticism” and “supernaturalism”. Many Romantics were passionately devoted to pre-Enlightenment ideals of “throne and altar”, and Wahhabism itself is [sometimes described](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/saudi-arabia-war-on-terrorism-by-brahma-chellaney-2015-12?barrier=accesspaylog) as containing a strong strain of “anti-modern romanticism”. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/44 "2019-09-12T04:52:31Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > I mean, presenting a serious threat to the global political order. Sure, because India, for example, is a tiny global backwater containing a mere one-sixth of the entire world population. > [@kirkrapine](#): > > Fukuyama is right if you take the long view – we’re not at the “end of history” yet, but you can see it on the horizon. :dubious: Ooooookayyyy. > [@kirkrapine](#): > > I don’t expect Hindutva, Le Front National, etc., to have much staying power, and anti-vaxxism is but a blip on the screen. Salafism, OTOH, has deeper roots in the affected cultures. Considering that the Hindutva movement is actually older than modern Salafi jihadism and not much younger than Salafism in general, I think the notion that Salafism has “deeper roots” culturally is at best highly debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/45 "2019-09-12T08:04:31Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > Your first paragraph makes me cringe a little. I get wanting to remember and honor the victims and their families, but what you’re describing sounds like deliberately ginning up the fear and hatred many felt in the aftermath–feelings that, understandable though they may be, aren’t really conducive toward making anything good out of what happened. It kind of reminds me of the two minutes’ hate in _1984_. OK, I can kind of see how you would read my words like that. Strictly my own viewpoint, but if someone had to live through something horrific, then I can certainly stand to merely look at it. Or read Cartooniverse’s narrative of events, which I have done every year for the past 18 years. Do you view re-reading that narrative every year as “ginning up the fear and hatred”? Time fuzzes memories. Especially with the amount misinformation spread either unintentionally or deliberately. I re-watch to remind myself of the rawness of what we saw that day, to remember how I felt, not from a standpoint of RAR! REVENGE! but to remember both the horror and the solidarity. I remind myself not only of the emotions but of the facts. If you don’t know me and you don’t know my posting history (and why should you?) you would be unaware of subsequent statements by me saying things like the going into Iraq was a mistake even before the US did so, and questing why the hunt for bin Laden seemed to be put on a back burner for years, or lamenting how much blood has been spilled since, often for reasons dubious at best, or opposing those who want to re-write history. Reviewing what happened that day is my way of honoring those who were there. It is what works for me. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/46 "2019-09-20T00:57:12Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > NEVER FORGET > > - That US foreign policy contributed significantly to the weaponization of Osama bin Laden > - That US leadership exploited our grief and disorientation to launch a war against an innocent, sovereign nation > - That US leadership exploited our grief and disorientation to launch a war against our own constitution > - That the US response to a terrorist attack yielded non-terrorist casualties 100x greater than our own losses in the initial attack > - That the US government, compared to the number of 9/11 civilian deaths, spent nearly twice as many of its own soldiers’ lives in wars against two industrially developing nations, allegedly in response to 9/11. > - That the US is sending people to fight in wars of retaliation that were begun before they were born, and for which the alleged instigators (Saddam & Osama) have already been executed > - That all three branches of the US government sanction government by fear over government by law > - That US politicians failed to unite the spirit of this country despite an unparalleled opportunity to do so; to remind us where we came from and the good we have done and still might, if we can recognize each other as members of the same nation. > > Mourn the US civilians who died senselessly, sometimes heroically, on September 11, 2001. Look out for their families and friends who doubtless still feel the loss. > And never forget why it happened, and that our entire government was complicit in capitalizing on the horror to tighten a noose around our own freedom and security for the financial gains of a handful of soulless merchants. > > Never forget, reject the rhetoric, unite with your neighbors as though your existence depends on it, hold your elected leaders accountable for upholding the law today, try to do better tomorrow. I came here to post something similar but your post is more eloquent than mine would’ve been. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/47 "2019-09-20T13:26:34Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > NEVER FORGET > > - That US foreign policy contributed significantly to the weaponization of Osama bin Laden > - That US leadership exploited our grief and disorientation to launch a war against an innocent, sovereign nation > - That US leadership exploited our grief and disorientation to launch a war against our own constitution > - That the US response to a terrorist attack yielded non-terrorist casualties 100x greater than our own losses in the initial attack > - That the US government, compared to the number of 9/11 civilian deaths, spent nearly twice as many of its own soldiers’ lives in wars against two industrially developing nations, allegedly in response to 9/11. > - That the US is sending people to fight in wars of retaliation that were begun before they were born, and for which the alleged instigators (Saddam & Osama) have already been executed > - That all three branches of the US government sanction government by fear over government by law > - That US politicians failed to unite the spirit of this country despite an unparalleled opportunity to do so; to remind us where we came from and the good we have done and still might, if we can recognize each other as members of the same nation. > > Mourn the US civilians who died senselessly, sometimes heroically, on September 11, 2001. Look out for their families and friends who doubtless still feel the loss. > And never forget why it happened, and that our entire government was complicit in capitalizing on the horror to tighten a noose around our own freedom and security for the financial gains of a handful of soulless merchants. > > Never forget, reject the rhetoric, unite with your neighbors as though your existence depends on it, hold your elected leaders accountable for upholding the law today, try to do better tomorrow. Excellent post. I dread every September as everyone’s Facebook feed is filled with recreational grief and perpetual victimhood. In the name of 9/11, we invaded an innocent country, killed tens of thousands of innocent people, bankrupted the nation, committed unspeakable acts of torture, and destabilized the entire region. We have defiled the memory of those lost on 9/11 by turning into terrorists ourselves. So fuck your recreational grief that serves no purpose other than perpetuate the hatred that caused the incident in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/48 "2019-09-20T14:20:07Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Fuck you > You motherfucking coward terrorists. > We know where you were from. > And we knew where you went. Yes - the world must never forget the great atrocity committed on the 11th of September. [Motherfucking CIA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat). ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/49 "2019-09-20T15:08:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Excellent post. I dread every September as everyone’s Facebook feed is filled with recreational grief and perpetual victimhood. > [@](#): > > So fuck your recreational grief that serves no purpose other than perpetuate the hatred that caused the incident in the first place. Ahhhh, so THAT’S what I’ve been feeling every year since my direct involvement as a First Responder. Thank you for the clarification. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Wallet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e99b99/32.png) [@Wallet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/50 "2019-09-21T00:22:10Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Ahhhh, so THAT’S what I’ve been feeling every year since my direct involvement as a First Responder. > > Thank you for the clarification. **Cartooniverse** , thank you for everything you did during that horrific time. You put yourself in harm’s way to help others, and you’re certainly entitled to your feelings about that time. To others in this thread: you’re also entitled to your opinions about that time, and the actions of our government. However…it could have been put in a different thread, so as not to shit on **Cartooniverse’s** experiences. Feel free to rag on me all you want - what **Cartooniverse** did was beyond heroic, and he deserves to have as many threads as he wants to talk about what happened, and how it’s affected him since. What our government did afterwards should be whole other topic. [The morning of 9/11 my sister decided to get to work a bit later, and went into Century 21 to do a little shopping first. She came out just in time for the first plane hit. We spent over 24 hours believing she was dead (we weren’t sure what floor she worked on). Knowing that so many brave people were putting their lives on the line gave us at least a glimmer of hope that my sister would be OK. I’d like to think that most NY’ers feel as much gratitude and respect for First Responders as I do.] ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/51 "2019-09-21T00:54:37Z")
Kudos to the first responders who did their jobs exceptionally on that day. But today I feel nowhere near the anger for the terrorists that I do for the cowards who rushed through the Patriot Act and every subsequent degradation of our personal freedoms, as well as the assholes who lied us into 2 unwarranted endless wars. The terrorist acts on 9/11 were horrendous. But we COULD have recovered from them in a manner that was consistent with purported American values, and which would have created positive longterm results. W, the neocons, the Congressional cowards, and the ignorant revenge seeking Americans harmed the US far more than Bin-Laden and his followers ever did or could have. ---
**Author:** ![cmosdes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@cmosdes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmosdes)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/52 "2019-09-21T01:02:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > - That the US is sending people to fight in wars of retaliation that were begun before they were born, and for which the alleged instigators (Saddam & Osama) have already been executed What did Saddam have to do with 911? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/53 "2019-09-21T01:06:00Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/54 "2019-09-21T21:17:26Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Nm Just a moment. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016/55 "2019-09-21T21:56:06Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > What I remember most about that day is seeing no planes in the sky while driving home from work. I was living almost next door to LAX. It was genuinely weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-9-11-scream-therapy-thread/840016.md?page=2)