# The 90’s Sound: Nirvana, Alice, Rage, Foos - mixer Andy Wallace (includes music ‘spoilers’) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 1, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810 "2018-03-01T11:34:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/21 "2018-03-02T13:27:23Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I knew Andy Wallace was involved in everything. I knew Geffen had him remix Nevermind and that is part of what led Cobain to go with Albini for In Utero. I assumed he was one of THE guys who pioneered the LOUD mix, where everything is compressed into a narrower dynamic range so the entire sound can be pushed up louder. In fact, I thought that _was_ the 90’s sound - that is what defined it, like use of a Chorus, out-of-phase guitars, synths and gated drums defined the 80’s sound. Rick Rubin is the one I usually hear criticized for the “loudness war” you’re talking about, but that’s more for his later (late 90s and onwards) work. Early 90s was starting to get compressed and “loud,” but I tend to think of that era as more LOUD-quiet-LOUD extreme dynamics types of songs. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/22 "2018-03-02T17:30:15Z")
I subscribe to Rick Beato’s channel and IMO that’s not his best video. The pacing is pretty bad and his camera doesn’t let us see what’s happening on his screens, so we have no visual cue for when the audio changes to a new song, for instance. The info he’s giving out is good (as always), it’s just the presentation is kinda lacking. > [@WordMan](#): > > Too late to edit: I guess my point is that I didn’t know to call what Wallace did “mixing.” To me, “mixing” is shifting levels, adding compression, setting volumes, etc. Mixing is not wholesale reprocessing and/or replacement of sound. Or at least I didn’t think of it that way. More fool me. I think it’s possible that you just didn’t extrapolate far enough, **WordMan**. Mixing is everything that happens after the initial sound is recorded but before the mastering. You cite “adding compression” which isn’t much different than adding reverb or delay, or altering the pitch or adding a cowbell track. I think that generally by the time a mixer has the ability to add things to a song (meaning the artist is okay with it) we elevate them to “producer” status as an acknowledgment that what they are doing is more integral to the final product. Obviously that doesn’t always happen; lots of times the producer has hired a guy to be the mixer, usually for their technical know-how with new devices and/or software or just for time/schedule constraints. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/23 "2018-03-02T19:10:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **pork rind** - I hear you, but the music still works. One might argue that Wallace’s mix was the final smoothing that got the music across to the masses. True Indie had a (often much) rawer feel. Yeah, I get that. I just happen to be cursed with a preference for that raw feel. Many of my favorite recordings have things on them that any “reputable” producer would consider _wrong_ and record over. So I am aware that this is a knee-jerk reaction. **Snowboarder Bo** ’s insight is useful. In my pantheon of people that contribute to a recording, I also (through massive ignorance I suppose) think that the producer is the last person who gets free rein to add/change/delete. I’ve always thought of the mixer and masterer as being guys that have to work with what’s provided and help create the best ultimate realization of that source material. But really, once you get away from the world of one-take live band recordings, you’re monkeying with stuff, so as long as the artists are cool with it, I should be too. Sidenote: I watched _Hired Gun_ last night. I really enjoyed it but would have preferred that they cast a little wider net when seeking out musicians to participate. Given that the dude from Five Finger Death Punch was the producer, I get it, but I think there was too much focus on the hard rock/metal crew. It was definitely one of those things where I now realize I want to know a little less about how the sausage is made. And they _for sure_ do a good, calm, reasonable job of making Billy Joel look like a tremendous dick. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/24 "2018-03-02T19:15:00Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > And they _for sure_ do a good, calm, reasonable job of making Billy Joel look like a tremendous dick. OK, we got that one queued up on Netflix then! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/25 "2018-03-02T19:46:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I subscribe to Rick Beato’s channel and IMO that’s not his best video. The pacing is pretty bad and his camera doesn’t let us see what’s happening on his screens, so we have no visual cue for when the audio changes to a new song, for instance. The info he’s giving out is good (as always), it’s just the presentation is kinda lacking.I think it’s possible that you just didn’t extrapolate far enough, **WordMan**. Mixing is everything that happens after the initial sound is recorded but before the mastering. You cite “adding compression” which isn’t much different than adding reverb or delay, or altering the pitch or adding a cowbell track. > > I think that generally by the time a mixer has the ability to add things to a song (meaning the artist is okay with it) we elevate them to “producer” status as an acknowledgment that what they are doing is more integral to the final product. Obviously that doesn’t always happen; lots of times the producer has hired a guy to be the mixer, usually for their technical know-how with new devices and/or software or just for time/schedule constraints. All of this sounds good and yes, I am seeing my need to be open to all of this stuff. I guess I hadn’t appreciated that Mixing had evolved almost to the equivalent of bringing in studio aces to replace band members back in the day. **pork rind** , yes, I agree that Hired Guns was narrow. You got a sense of the life of a journeyman but only through a few specific anecdotes. And I would argue that Billy Joel is made out to be worse than a dick - he was a heartless bastard who betrayed his bandmates with tragic consequences. I am not saying I agree with this - I am saying that’s how they portray it. They allude to the fact that Joel had been robbed of millions so was tightening his controls, but otherwise he’s a monster. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/26 "2018-03-02T19:48:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > OK, we got that one queued up on Netflix then! 🙂 When you watch the segments with Liberty DeVitto (Joel’s drummer for many years), keep in mind that they apparently couldn’t use any of his original footage as it was too incendiary and feared lawsuits. They came back around and re-did all his interviews. I’d dearly love to see what was cut. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/27 "2018-03-02T19:55:06Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > When you watch the segments with Liberty DeVitto (Joel’s drummer for many years), keep in mind that they apparently couldn’t use any of his original footage as it was too incendiary and feared lawsuits. They came back around and re-did all his interviews. I’d dearly love to see what was cut. Really?! Where’d you read that? He was pretty bitter as it is! ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/28 "2018-03-02T20:06:00Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Really?! Where’d you read that? He was pretty bitter as it is! I saw it in this article in [LA Weekly](http://www.laweekly.com/music/hired-gun-documentary-puts-backing-musicians-in-the-spotlight-8353234)… > [@](#): > > In fact, DeVitto was interviewed twice for the film, because the first interview was so volatile, and he unloaded so much baggage from the past, “He probably would have had a lawsuit on his hands if I’d put it out,” Strine says. “I told him, ‘I want to save you and interview you again,’ so we went back up to Brooklyn, narrowed it down, and got his story the way he wanted to tell it, where it wasn’t so over-the-top.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/29 "2018-03-02T20:26:36Z")
Thanks for all the talk about _Hired Gun_; I just added it to my Netflix queue. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/30 "2018-03-02T21:49:10Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > But the second is even more of a head twist for me: he replaced a track’s actually-recorded drum sounds with the _exact same drum sample sounds_, across some of the most famous songs we know. Beato toggles between a Rage song and a Linkin Park song and you hear that the snare, kick and toms are the same. Beato also shows how it’s done: with new tech back then, you could use the actual-recorded track’s drum hits to trigger the sample, so its sound was the dominant sound, but fit perfectly with the recorded drum’s timing. Post snipped Wait until you read about reamping. Basically you record a track, take the track and send it out to a different amp/cabinet/device and record the output to a new track and mix it in. [Linky](https://www.puremix.net/blog/how-to-reamp-getting-out-of-the-box.html). A lot of this kind of thing is becoming insanely simple. Steven Slate has a product called Trigger which will note the hits on a drum track and replace them with whatever sound you want. [Linky](http://stevenslatedrums.com/trigger-2-platinum/). I’ve got Steven Slate drums, no need for Trigger right now as I don’t have a drummer, but he has some great sounds. The Black kit kick is freaking awesome. There is no real work involved, just install the package and point it to the track. Good mixing can radically alter a tune. I am getting better at mixing and identifying what e.q. holes to poke and where in the mix, how layering affects phase, etc. More than once I have gotten a really good sound then, at a later point, spent hours trying to figure out what exactly made it good so I could reproduce it. Thankfully, things are getting clearer and I am better about noting _exactly_ what the hell I have going on when I record and mix. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/31 "2018-03-02T22:30:34Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Good mixing can radically alter a tune. I am getting better at mixing and identifying what e.q. holes to poke and where in the mix, how layering affects phase, etc. More than once I have gotten a really good sound then, at a later point, spent hours trying to figure out what exactly made it good so I could reproduce it. Thankfully, things are getting clearer and I am better about noting _exactly_ what the hell I have going on when I record and mix. When I mix, I’ll often just have a basic work file going but when I get to where I feel like I’m closing in on what I want, I start saving versions: Song 1.0 for instance. then changes get marked by new version numbers (yeah, just like software). This helps me keep track of significant changes I’ve made and offers me a go-back point if I decide I fucked it all up and need to go back to the last spot where it wasn’t fucked up. And yeah, it helps to keep a written (or typed) log of the changes, so that 4 months later I don’t have to try and remember that Song 2.3.2 was the one just before I added all that reverb to the cymbals or added an 808 bass drum on top of the kick or something. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/32 "2018-03-03T01:09:20Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I saw it in this article in [LA Weekly](http://www.laweekly.com/music/hired-gun-documentary-puts-backing-musicians-in-the-spotlight-8353234)… Wow thanks for sharing all that. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/33 "2018-03-03T11:11:45Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Post snipped > > Wait until you read about reamping. Basically you record a track, take the track and send it out to a different amp/cabinet/device and record the output to a new track and mix it in. [Linky](https://www.puremix.net/blog/how-to-reamp-getting-out-of-the-box.html). > > A lot of this kind of thing is becoming insanely simple. Steven Slate has a product called Trigger which will note the hits on a drum track and replace them with whatever sound you want. [Linky](http://stevenslatedrums.com/trigger-2-platinum/). I’ve got Steven Slate drums, no need for Trigger right now as I don’t have a drummer, but he has some great sounds. The Black kit kick is freaking awesome. There is no real work involved, just install the package and point it to the track. > > Good mixing can radically alter a tune. I am getting better at mixing and identifying what e.q. holes to poke and where in the mix, how layering affects phase, etc. More than once I have gotten a really good sound then, at a later point, spent hours trying to figure out what exactly made it good so I could reproduce it. Thankfully, things are getting clearer and I am better about noting _exactly_ what the hell I have going on when I record and mix. > > Slee I have heard of reamping; for some reason I guess I assumed it was something used by someone laying down their own tracks at home, not to apply Hot Sound Recipe #32 to a track at the Big Music level. Standardizing a sound recipe does make sense - every era has fads, trends and new tech which define the sound of that era. I just assumed that was in the hands of the producer - I hadn’t appreciated how tech had moved it to the mixer. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/34 "2018-03-03T15:39:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I have heard of reamping; for some reason I guess I assumed it was something used by someone laying down their own tracks at home, not to apply Hot Sound Recipe #32 to a track at the Big Music level. > > Standardizing a sound recipe does make sense - every era has fads, trends and new tech which define the sound of that era. I just assumed that was in the hands of the producer - I hadn’t appreciated how tech had moved it to the mixer. I’ve not heard the term before, but I’ve done this in Logic Pro: record my guitar totally clean, no effects and then I can feed it to any number of different amp/cabinet combos that are all built in to Logic. In an instant I can sound like a mid-'60s Marshall stack or a JC-120 or an acoustic guitar in an empty church, all using the same basic track. I can write a drum part and with just a click change it to any number of different drum kits, both acoustic and electric. I can add a nearly infinite number of effects to each track too. Logic Pro costs $200. This kind of technology is why kids in their bedroom are writing pop hits. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/35 "2018-03-03T21:32:09Z")
I just finished watching _Hired Gun_. I was very impressed. Like, 10/10 impressed. Fantastic interviews, fucking amazing people being interviewed and an excellent focus on the subject matter. I knew a lot of those names going in to this, but there were more that I didn’t know. I thought that was great, getting to “meet” new people. I found out a lot about some people I had heard of, too, for instance: I knew who Jason Hook was because I’ve been listening to 5FDP since they started; a friend of mine is buddies with Zoltan and let me know about them like 10 minutes after they had a name. But I didn’t know his history, so it was cool seeing how he’s a regular blue-collar guy at heart. In fact, that was the coolest takeaway for me, I think, was seeing how all these guys, despite their incredible and somewhat arcane skills, really are blue-collar-“working for a living” folks just like me. My favorite takeaway tho, is that Liberty Devitto is clearly one of the coolest motherfuckers on the godddamned planet in addition to being a kick-ass drummer. I wanna hang out with him, buy him a beer or something. If I thought he’d get any money from it, I’d go buy Billy Joel’s entire catalog right now (relax; I know he wouldn’t). Many thanks to **GargoyleWB** for bringing the film up and to everyone else who discussed it. Truly worthwhile, IMO, if you are a musician or just love music. Again, 10/10 rating from me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/36 "2018-03-03T23:00:51Z")
Yeah, thanks for the recs. Just watched _Hired Gun_ and it was fantastic. I didn’t know the vast majority of these players, but they all seemed like a bunch of cool cats to hang around with. Except for that Filter dude. Loved all the little stories, especially the one about the Jack & Diane drum fill. Also had no idea about all the tension between Billy Joel and his original bandmates. I actually found Liberty’s interview to be pretty level-headed. I was expecting something much more acrimonious. Russell Javors seemed to harbor a lot more resentment, but now reading up about how Liberty’s part had been re-cut, I’ll have to catch up on the LA Weekly article posted above. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/37 "2018-03-04T04:02:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Except for that Filter dude. Yeah, what was up with him? “Trent Reznor didn’t treat me very well when I was in his band and I didn’t like it. I guess what I’ve learned is to treat my own band even worse.” Similar to wanting to buy Liberty a beer, I think it would be fun to hang out with Rudy Sarzo. I knew who he was, hy never paid him any attention. Seems like an interesting dude. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/38 "2018-03-04T05:54:47Z")
The one story that had me in stitches was the two guys (already forgot their names) telling the story of writing the George Benson tune under extreme deadline pressure, and coming up with the chorus on the crapper. Just the way that story is told is gold. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/39 "2018-03-04T10:51:05Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Yeah, what was up with him? “Trent Reznor didn’t treat me very well when I was in his band and I didn’t like it. I guess what I’ve learned is to treat my own band even worse.” > > Similar to wanting to buy Liberty a beer, I think it would be fun to hang out with Rudy Sarzo. I knew who he was, hy never paid him any attention. Seems like an interesting dude. Rudy Sarzo is a Cuban Hair Metal Zelig. Where _hasn’t_ he been? I have no POV on his playing - he’s always in service to some acrobatic lead player. He has his one move where he holds his bass like a shotgun at his shoulder and brings his right hand up from below to play. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810/40 "2018-03-04T16:08:03Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > The one story that had me in stitches was the two guys (already forgot their names) telling the story of writing the George Benson tune under extreme deadline pressure, and coming up with the chorus on the crapper. Just the way that story is told is gold. Jay Graydon and Steve Lukather. I want a sequel composed solely of Jay telling more stories. He’s a hilarious dude, but also I don’t want the number one thing I know about him to be that he has to get totally naked to take a dump. > [@WordMan](#): > > Rudy Sarzo is a Cuban Hair Metal Zelig. Where hasn’t he been? I have no POV on his playing - he’s always in service to some acrobatic lead player. He has his one move where he holds his bass like a shotgun at his shoulder and brings his right hand up from below to play. Yeah, I can’t tell you anything about Rudy’s playing. Back in the day I might have cynically claimed that he was hired for the bands he was in (like most side men) solely because he looked the part. I’m still not a giant fan if the genre, but time has tempered the severity of my thinking (along with the demonstrated premise of the movie)and now figure all of those guys must have been pretty damn good, along with looking the part. I just came away with the thought that Rudy would be a cool guy to hang out with. Do I get bonus points for having seen him do that shotgun trick live? Whitesnake, Fall of 1988, I believe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-90-s-sound-nirvana-alice-rage-foos-mixer-andy-wallace-includes-music-spoilers/809810.md?page=3)