# The abortion debate: are the antis really making headway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040 "2009-10-25T08:18:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/81 "2009-10-31T14:31:43Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > What have you been smoking? It sounds to me more that you have a chip on your shoulder against Christians. Don’t let a few whack jobs blowing up abortion clinics convince you that all pro-life people are anti woman. Need I remind you that many are female. In fact 50% of Christians are female. Do you think THEY support the oppression of their gender? I think they do. They may not realize it, or they may not see it as oppression, but it is. > [@](#): > > I am pro life. Does that mean I want to oppress women? Of course not. I adore women! It means I want women to not oppress their children. What children? > [@](#): > > I want women (and men of course) to recognize that sex DOES have consequenses. They probably know. Dontcha think forcing them to raise children they do not want is a bit of a heavyhanded way of getting your point across? > [@](#): > > Abortion is not supposed to be used as a regular method of birth control. It probably isn’t being used such. But it’s not your concern if someone you’ve never met in a place you’ve never been to does something entirely legal for reasons you do not like. > [@](#): > > Even planned parenthood says that. But it is precisely how abortion is being used, especially over large population groups. I doubt that. I was a security guard at the Morgentaler Clinic in Edmonton during and after its construction. I did not get the impression these women - girls, really - were particularly blase about their being there. Most of them were crying. None of them were happy. What insight do you have about the motives of women who get abortions? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/82 "2009-10-31T15:44:44Z")
Those are not large population groups. I was talking about abortion as a means of contraception over a large population. It is a contraceptive when you consider a population of millions. And I don’t want to FORCE women to raise kids they don’t want. I want them to volunteer to do it. Some women have abortions because society’s views on abortion are far too accepting. Not all of course. Some wouldn’t want the children anyway. But girls being told about abortion at age 10 and not about abstenance is the wrong approach. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/83 "2009-10-31T16:51:59Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > And I don’t want to FORCE women to raise kids they don’t want. I want them to volunteer to do it. Right, give them a chance to volunteer and if they don’t, _then_ force them. It’s good to see you have your priorities straight. Or, more seriously, roughly a million American women a year who are faced with this decision choose abortion. About four million others decide otherwise. So you’ve got a 20% noncompliance rate. If I were you, I’d be content with the other 80% and call it a success. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SmartAlx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlx)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/84 "2009-10-31T16:57:18Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > then force them. As I said, I don’t support forcing them. I have never ever ever said one thing about wanting to force it on them. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/85 "2009-10-31T17:01:03Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > As I said, I don’t support forcing them. I have never ever ever said one thing about wanting to force it on them. Good. Keep it up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/86 "2009-10-31T17:20:59Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Those are not large population groups. I was talking about abortion as a means of contraception over a large population. It is a contraceptive when you consider a population of millions. This makes no sense at all. Something’s either a contraceptive, or it isn’t. It doesn’t take on emergent properties. Abortion doesn’t really prevent conception anyway no matter how many women have them. > [@](#): > > And I don’t want to FORCE women to raise kids they don’t want. I want them to volunteer to do it. I see a distinction without a difference when it comes to this issue. They are obviously not willing to volunteer or they wouldn’t be getting an abortion in the first place. > [@](#): > > Some women have abortions because society’s views on abortion are far too accepting. Not all of course. Which ones? And so what? Why is this your business? > [@](#): > > Some wouldn’t want the children anyway. But girls being told about abortion at age 10 and not about abstenance is the wrong approach. Well that depends on the goal you’re trying to reach, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040/87 "2009-11-05T01:37:10Z")
> [@SmartAlx](#): > > Completely agree. > > I will have to check out the book. Was a lot of the emotional trauma about the neverending tide of children? Never knowing when a pregnancy would occur? Never knowing when it all would end? I’m curious. In general how many children did the mothers have before they started to feel the emotional trauma? Do you think if these women had started to take birth control at 3 children, say they had sterilization surgery, and they happened to have had a forth child would they have been able to cope? I can understand how difficult it must be to have 6,7, 10 children, or more. I know very large families were not uncommon. One set of my own Grandparents had a lot of children and they all lived in a fairly small house so I can understand how difficult it must have been. Do you think that birth control would have been enough for the women in this book? Or do you think that abortion is the only thing that could have helped them? [Margaret Sanger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger)’s work was in the 1910’s. She was instrumental in legalizing and promoting birth control (diaphragms, initially; the pill much later), and founded what became Planned Parenthood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-abortion-debate-are-the-antis-really-making-headway/515040.md?page=4)