# The addictive properties of marijuana, and discussion of other drugs **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183 "2008-01-11T21:05:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/21 "2008-01-11T22:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] **bb2k,** if he was saying years after quitting, fomer pot users when polled claim to miss pot on a scale of 1 to 10 at a similar rate as former heroin users, I could possibly see that. But that’s not what he said. [/QUOTE] You are exactly correct, that’s not what he’s saying. I guess it’s just word vs. word. And that’s why I raised doubts about what was said by someone I know online, and an actual doctor who treats these patients. Like I said earlier, I was really rather shocked, but mostly interested to here him say this. And as a doc who has seen this (I have no experience), I see no reason not to believe his real-life experience. Call it awe of authority if you’d like. I’d just like to see this talked about outside the Cafe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/22 "2008-01-11T22:18:33Z")
> [@Dr. Drew](#): > > Marijuana addicts love pot. Well, there’s a unique and valuable insight for you. :rolleyes: I disagree pretty stongly with the dismissal of marijuana addicts as “weak minded.” Addiction is a sickness, not a moral failing, and addiction does not need to have a chemical component to completly destroy someone’s life. That said, the chances of a marijuana addiction destroying someone’s life seems pretty slim to me. The fact is, one can smoke an appalling amount of pot and still be a fully functional, productive member of society. Is a person who gets high every day, but still has a job and an active social life an addict? If he is an addict, but it’s not destroying his life, does it _matter_ if he’s an addict? As for Dr. Drew, his comments here strike me as extremely questionable. Withdrawal from pot can be as bad as heroin withdrawal? _Really?_ I smell something in that statement, and I’m pretty sure it’s not skunkweed. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/23 "2008-01-11T22:27:31Z")
**Miller** , what I meant by weak minded is that if you allow your life to be ruined by pot, you are weak minded, because as you said, it’s almost impossible to do so. Someone who smokes every day but is fully functional to me is not addicted, and therefore not weak minded. If you lose your job and get kicked out of your apartment and are on the street because of pot, somethings wrong upstairs. I wouldn’t feel the same way about an alcoholic or heroin addict in the same boat, I’d be more empathetic- with a pot user, I’d laugh at them, because I can’t fathom it happening. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/24 "2008-01-11T22:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] **Miller** , what I meant by weak minded is that if you allow your life to be ruined by pot, you are weak minded, because as you said, it’s almost impossible to do so. Someone who smokes every day but is fully functional to me is not addicted, and therefore not weak minded. If you lose your job and get kicked out of your apartment and are on the street because of pot, somethings wrong upstairs. I wouldn’t feel the same way about an alcoholic or heroin addict in the same boat, I’d be more empathetic- with a pot user, I’d laugh at them, because I can’t fathom it happening. [/QUOTE] Would you also laugh at someone who had, say, a gambling addiction? ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/25 "2008-01-11T22:30:48Z")
Dr. Drew is an interesting guy, he’s actually managed for most of his career to be rather high profile and not completely full of shit, but he’s missed the mark on this one and I think I can guess why. This new show isn’t actually about helping anyone, it’s just celebrity vouyerism with a sick twist. Let’s poke the junkies with a camera and see what happens. Drew needs someone to “cure” because this isn’t actual drug rehab. So he can “cure” the pothead and at least the show can claim that “success”. If you admit that the problem you’re fixing isn’t really a problem, there goes “Season 1” so you have to embrace bad marijuana myth as a plot device. That’s all this is. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/26 "2008-01-11T22:34:54Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Would you also laugh at someone who had, say, a gambling addiction? [/QUOTE] I can’t say on that because its apples and oranges- a substance vs. an activity. Gambling to me would be comparable to a shopping addiction and I don’t know enough of how those work. But from the cite I posted upthread, pot is less addictive than caffeine- wouldn’t you laugh at someone who said their life was ruined by Pepsi? **Cluricaun** is exactly right about the show- its for ratings. You can’t compare the comments of the real Dr Drew and those on the show. Next week the punk guy gets his homegirls to sneak in and party in the pool, much to Drews faux chagrin. If he really cared, there’d be a guard at the gate. But girls in the pool get better ratings. ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/27 "2008-01-11T22:36:15Z")
In fairness, the comments he made about marijuana addiction that I cited were made almost one and a half years ago. Although you are correct by mentioning that there has been a dual-advertising link between Loveline and the VH1 special this past week. The guests on the radio show have been almost exclusively been celebs on the VH1 special, but it has been mostly discussion about addiction rather than plugs. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/28 "2008-01-11T22:46:38Z")
[QUOTE=bbs2k] I don’t believe he was referring to a “harder to quit” factor as much as he was describing how in his experience those who have “sobered up” miss the experience so much more… [/QUOTE] No apologies needed but he’d _still_ be wrong: [**Experts Rate Problem Substances**](http://www.tfy.drugsense.org/tfy/addictvn.htm) Scroll down to the last third of the page. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/29 "2008-01-11T22:51:15Z")
PS: never mind my link. Already posted by **[Wee Bairn](http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/LIBRARY/basicfax5.htm)** – and right to the study as well. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/30 "2008-01-11T22:51:27Z")
Having been in the academic world for many years I’ll say this debate has been going on ad infinitum and will for quite some time. People in the scientific community look at what receptors fire in an addictive brain and new research is promising on actually understanding human addiction. That being said, of course it’s addictive, most things can be…What specifically is the OP looking for? Is it better for you than any other drug? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/31 "2008-01-11T22:51:48Z")
**bbs2k** , licensed doctors disagree on things all the time- haven’t you ever gotten the proverbial second opinion, and it was different? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/32 "2008-01-11T22:52:01Z")
[QUOTE=Mytoehurts] Actually there are plenty of recreational heroin users out there, and millions who take cocaine without much difficulty. [/quote] For heroin, I just don’t know. Cocaine, you’re definitely right. I guess it’s also a matter of what drugs happen to “work” like that for you. My limited experience with cocaine (in fact, with most drugs) is that seems fairly safe in terms of addiction unless you do it a lot, and many people just don’t do it that often. Even then, I wouldn’t know how hard it would be to kick a cocaine habit. > [@](#): > > Certainly, physical addiction exists; it is, however, medically quite easy to treat. But real addiction comes essentially from weak mindedness, and I have no sympathy for addicts whatsoever except in the sense that I feel sorry that most are under pressure not to take drugs when they know in their hearts that taking them is fine. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. Some addictions can ruin people’s life. Now I do think quite a lot of that is due to the insanely high prices for certain illegal drugs and not all due to the effects of the drugs themselves, but a serious alcoholic, for instance, will very likely have problems just being productive when he’s not drunk. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, out of all the drugs that I have taken (and I’m under the influence of a couple right now) cannabis has been the worst for affecting my mind outside of taking it - it slows me mentally for weeks. I don’t know about weeks, but yeah. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/33 "2008-01-11T22:54:18Z")
Pot doesn’t produce physical dependency; the assertion that it is remotely anywhere close to heroin is laughable on its face. Psychologically, not so much either. Where it gets habit forming is when it starts replacing the other positive things in your life. You start smoking pot, gradually you get out of the habit of doing anything pleasurable or maintaining friendships. At some point you think “man, I need to cut back”, and at that point you notice your friends have drifted away and you forgot how to do anything fun besides smoke pot. It can sneak up on you because the day-to-day costs are so minuscule, once you recalibrate for the 5% or so mental slowdown. That happened to me at one point, and I just like, y’know, stopped smoking pot. There was nothing painful about it except figuring out how I was going to entertain myself with all this newfound free time. But some people do feel they have enough of a problem that they feel the need to attend Marijuana Anonymous to kick the habit and get their life back on track. Not for me, but I’ve known some like that. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/34 "2008-01-11T23:08:28Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] Pot doesn’t produce physical dependency; the assertion that it is remotely anywhere close to heroin is laughable on its face. Psychologically, not so much either. Where it gets habit forming is when it starts replacing the other positive things in your life. You start smoking pot, gradually you get out of the habit of doing anything pleasurable or maintaining friendships. At some point you think “man, I need to cut back”, and at that point you notice your friends have drifted away and you forgot how to do anything fun besides smoke pot. It can sneak up on you because the day-to-day costs are so minuscule, once you recalibrate for the 5% or so mental slowdown. That happened to me at one point, and I just like, y’know, stopped smoking pot. There was nothing painful about it except figuring out how I was going to entertain myself with all this newfound free time. But some people do feel they have enough of a problem that they feel the need to attend Marijuana Anonymous to kick the habit and get their life back on track. Not for me, but I’ve known some like that. [/QUOTE] Good post. This is pretty much the boat I’m in now- someone calls to go out an eat, nah, I’d rather stay home and smoke pot- you can come over and join me if you want, but I don’t want to leave the couch to go out and eat 🙂 And it comes and goes, if I get tired of the laziness as you said, I stop and get back into hanging out and doing things. And when the wee bairn is over, I absolutely drop the pipe and go out and do stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/35 "2008-01-11T23:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=Superfluous Parentheses] What I find Interesting about that is that it claims withdrawal symptoms of alcohol are more severe than those of heroin. What _are_ the withdrawal symptoms for severe alcoholics? [/QUOTE] Beyond the horrid symptoms of detox, which as you well noted can kill you on their own, there is this: [**Alcohol-Attributable Deaths and Years of Potential Life Lost**](http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm) > [@](#): > > Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States (1) and is associated with multiple adverse health consequences, including liver cirrhosis, various cancers, unintentional injuries, and violence. To analyze alcohol-related health impacts, CDC estimated the number of alcohol-attributable deaths (AADs) and years of potential life lost (YPLLs) in the United States during 2001. This report summarizes the results of that analysis, which indicated that approximately 75,766 AADs and 2.3 million YPLLs, or approximately 30 years of life lost on average per AAD, were attributable to excessive alcohol use in 2001. These results emphasize the importance of adopting effective strategies\* to reduce excessive drinking, including increasing alcohol excise taxes and screening for alcohol misuse in clinical settings. And now I’d ask the OP – or better yet, **Dr Drew** – to come-up with anything _remotely related_ to that quote concerning pot **abuse** , never mind use. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/36 "2008-01-11T23:15:26Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] If he really cared, there’d be a guard at the gate. But girls in the pool get better ratings. [/QUOTE] If he really cared he’d get these people shunted off to an actual rehab facility instead of making a mockery of the recovery process because they apparently couldn’t dredge up another group of people who Love New York or get Tom Sizemore to smoke any more crank. I’ve never been to rehab and probably never will, but I have friends and family members who are only here today because they took that first step and got better. This show will probably end up doing a huge disservice to people who may have been thinking about getting cleaned up and thinking that this load of dung is any kind of an actual reflection of what that process is like. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/37 "2008-01-11T23:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] I can’t say on that because its apples and oranges- a substance vs. an activity. Gambling to me would be comparable to a shopping addiction and I don’t know enough of how those work. [/quote] So, you wouldn’t laugh at someone whose life was ruined due to an addiction that involved no chemicals whatsoever. And you wouldn’t laugh at someone whose life was ruined by an addiction that involved very powerful chemicals. But you _would_ laugh at someone whose life was ruined by an addiction that involved fairly mild chemicals. That strikes me as a little odd. Regardless, I don’t see how it’s an apples to oranges comparison. We are, after all, talking about addiction in all cases. IANAD, but my understanding is that the mental mechanism underlying addiction is largely the same, no matter what the fixation of the addiction is. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/38 "2008-01-11T23:21:21Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] So, you wouldn’t laugh at someone whose life was ruined due to an addiction that involved no chemicals whatsoever. And you wouldn’t laugh at someone whose life was ruined by an addiction that involved very powerful chemicals. But you _would_ laugh at someone whose life was ruined by an addiction that involved fairly mild chemicals. That strikes me as a little odd. Regardless, I don’t see how it’s an apples to oranges comparison. We are, after all, talking about addiction in all cases. IANAD, but my understanding is that the mental mechanism underlying addiction is largely the same, no matter what the fixation of the addiction is. [/QUOTE] My initial reaction to a gambling or shopping addiction would be laughter as well, but I don’t know enough about it to tell if that’s an asshole thing to do. I know enough about pot to know that pot “addiction” to the point of ruining ones life is hooey. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/39 "2008-01-12T00:02:20Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] My initial reaction to a gambling or shopping addiction would be laughter as well, but I don’t know enough about it to tell if that’s an asshole thing to do. I know enough about pot to know that pot “addiction” to the point of ruining ones life is hooey. [/QUOTE] So, what other illnessess, physical or mental, do you think are worthy of derision? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183/40 "2008-01-12T00:08:01Z")
Or, look at it this way. You’ve probably had more than a few drinks in your life, yet you’re not an alcoholic. You probably know a lot of other people who drink, but aren’t alcoholics. Yet you don’t disparage the concept of alcoholism, right? Despite the fact that alcoholics, for whatever reason, react differently to alcohol than you do, you recognize that alcoholism is a real and serious problem. Now, is it not possible that, just as a subset of humanity reacts very negatively to the use of alcohol, there can be a subset (even a miniscule one) that can react in a similarly negative fashion to the use of marijuana? Does the fact that a particular illness is very rare somehow make it less real? The bottom line is, everyone’s physiology and psychology is a little different. Not everyone reacts to the same substances in the same way. Just because a reaction is outside the realm of your personal experience does not make that reaction invalid or imagined. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-addictive-properties-of-marijuana-and-discussion-of-other-drugs/433183.md?page=3)