# The Agony of Paul Ryan: It's going to be a looooong five month, Paul **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390 "2016-06-15T02:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/41 "2016-06-18T05:41:51Z")
I highly question the folks saying Ryan has no spine. He clearly hates Trump but has a certain obligation to not publicly disparage him. The Repubs shilling for Trump “'cause he’s our nominee” are the spineless cowards. They aren’t sending daily reminders that Trump is hugely flawed and dangerous, as Ryan is now doing. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/42 "2016-06-18T05:48:49Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > I highly question the folks saying Ryan has no spine. > > He clearly hates Trump but has a certain obligation to not publicly disparage him. > > The Repubs shilling for Trump “'cause he’s our nominee” are the spineless cowards. They aren’t sending daily reminders that Trump is hugely flawed and dangerous, as Ryan is now doing. I am deeply interested in knowing how you characterize a person who sends frequent (if not daily) reminders that he’s voting for a person who is yugely flawed and dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/43 "2016-06-18T05:49:11Z")
The question seems to be moving from whether Trump will fail to how many other Republicans will he take down with him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/44 "2016-06-18T11:00:53Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > He clearly hates Trump but has a certain obligation to not publicly disparage him. What obligation? Party before country? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/45 "2016-06-18T13:09:23Z")
Don’t sound so surprised, **NP**. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/46 "2016-06-18T13:17:05Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > So Ryan has neither principles or a spine. That’s some statesman, right there. > > I gotta say, Mitt Romney has never looked better. I disagree. Ryan’s position is complicated, but that reflects a calculated election and nomination process…which isn’t exactly complete yet, despite what the mainstream media has reported. Trump has technically won the nomination, according to current party rules. But the rules can also be changed, and I suspect that it is what Ryan is trying to suggest, that the rules change. Ryan has an agenda that he wants to achieve. He is focused on that agenda in a way that few have ever been in recent memory. Most House speakers, majority whips, majority leaders get caught up in the parliamentarian aspects of the job and over time tend to abandon their core ideas and end up trying to bend according to the whims of the party. I don’t see Ryan doing that. I see Ryan trying to preserve his grand vision for implementing a long-term fiscal overhaul and the way that the US spends its money. Mind you, I don’t in any way, shape, or form support Ryan’s agenda. But I admire the way Ryan works. Ryan “supports” the party nominee because he feels like he has to respect the voters who voted for Trump and nominated him according to the current rules. At the same time, the political system in our country, being the complicated system it is, has an ‘eject’ button in case the voters ‘get it wrong’ – and I think Ryan is among those who really believe that the voters indeed got it wrong this time. So while he respects the voters, he doesn’t respect their vote. He’s trying to straddle the line. I see nothing impure about what he’s doing. It’s very pure. Respecting democratic participation, even if you disagree with the vote, is an ethical position to take. You respect the voter without necessarily respecting the product of the voter. I think that’s Ryan’s position, and I respect it. Of course I hope the GOP implodes this fall, but that’s another thread of discussion. I think Ryan is basically one of the good guys, even if I think his economic ideas are crackpot material at times. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/47 "2016-06-18T13:22:05Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Well, I’m starting to think Ryan doesn’t have one, since he’s prepared to vote for a racist, religious bigot, because “hey, better than Hilary”. > > However, he seems to acknowledge that some of his colleagues have them. AFAICT, plenty of Republican politicians are anti-Trump because they don’t think he’s a true conservative. There’s been talk of him possibly having a “secret socialist agenda” and such. When Ryan says that others should “vote their conscience”, he’s only partly referring to Trump’s bigotry and total lack of competence. Ryan is also speaking to the concerns about Trump not being a real Republican; that he’ll abandon his clumsy positions on tax cuts for the wealthy and restrictions on abortion once he’s in office. So yeah, conscience indeed. It’s probably 10% “bigotry is bad”, 10% “he’s drawing attention to our bigoted platforms and that’s bad”, and 80% “he’s really more of a liberal aside from the bigotry”. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/48 "2016-06-18T14:01:45Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I think Rhythmdvl is largely right. The GOP establishment clearly loathes Trump but they have to walk the line because if by some crazy event (like Sanders’ supporters voting for Trump) he actually wins they want to try to have some influence over him. If they burn bridges now they have no hope of influence in the future. > > It’s pragmatic and, really, the right thing to do. There’s also the other side of this. If, as is likely, November turns into a train wreck for Republicans, no one wants to be perceived as having contributed to the train wreck by fracturing the party. I almost feel sorry for Ryan, much as I loathe the man. There could not be a worse time to be the most visible senior Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/49 "2016-06-18T14:17:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What obligation? Party before country? You gotta dance with the one who brung ya, right? I mean, Trump’s the party’s nominee, for better or worse, and Ryan’s stuck with him. It’s the same sort of situation with the Bernie people and Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/50 "2016-06-18T14:33:20Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What obligation? Party before country? He’s only the Speaker of the House. Do you not understand that he has some obligation to not decimate the party he controls? He’s doing as much as he can to make it clear he does not like Trump. His sustained reticence in not endorsing Trump early on is yet more evidence of this. There are a lot of bad guys in this Trump debacle, but Ryan is not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/51 "2016-06-18T14:44:43Z")
If Ryan knew last year that Trump really would wind up as the nominee, what are the odds he would never have accepted the Speakership to begin with? The fact that he did is the strongest indication that the Republican leadership really couldn’t believe that Trump would win out. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/52 "2016-06-18T15:00:27Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > He’s only the Speaker of the House. Do you not understand that he has some obligation to not decimate the party he controls? > > He’s doing as much as he can to make it clear he does not like Trump. His sustained reticence in not endorsing Trump early on is yet more evidence of this. > > There are a lot of bad guys in this Trump debacle, but Ryan is not one of them. Supporting Trump is decimating the Republican Party. When Ryan is reduced to saying things like _“Donald Trump is incompetent and a racist and I expect he’ll break the law if elected. But I’m endorsing him anyway.”_ he’s destroying the credibility of the Republican Party. Ryan should instead be protecting his party by publicly repudiating Trump. Hell, the Republicans in Congress have years of practice in being hostile to Obama; all they need to do is shift to a new target. They can even denounce Clinton at the same time. Ryan could make the policy of blind opposition look principled instead of partisan. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/53 "2016-06-18T15:17:45Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There’s also the other side of this. If, as is likely, November turns into a train wreck for Republicans, no one wants to be perceived as having contributed to the train wreck by fracturing the party. I almost feel sorry for Ryan, much as I loathe the man. There could not be a worse time to be the most visible senior Republican. True, they all want to be able to say it’s 100% exclusively Trump’s fault and they had nothing, NOTHING! to do with it, and once more with feeling: \* “if only we had run a Real Conservative™…”\* ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/54 "2016-06-18T16:32:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …Ryan should instead be protecting his party by publicly repudiating Trump. Hell, the Republicans in Congress have years of practice in being hostile to Obama; all they need to do is shift to a new target. They can even denounce Clinton at the same time. Ryan could make the policy of blind opposition look principled instead of partisan. I’ve been thinking this myself. Don’t know if he has the guts for it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/55 "2016-06-18T16:52:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > There’s also the other side of this. If, as is likely, November turns into a train wreck for Republicans, no one wants to be perceived as having contributed to the train wreck by fracturing the party. Being on board the train when it gets wrecked is worse than watching it get wrecked from a distance. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2016, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/56 "2016-07-11T16:58:39Z")
[Paul Ryan has dropped 30 points in Wisconsin poll](http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/07/paul-ryan-tanks-drops-43-latest-wisconsin-poll/). > [@](#): > > A poll of likely Republican voters shows House Speaker Paul Ryan well below 50 percent in his race to maintain his seat in Wisconsin’s first Congressional district. > The poll was conducted by P.M.I., with 424 respondents randomly called from a file of 11,000 likely GOP primary voters. It shows that with one month remaining before Wisconsin’s August 9th vote, Ryan is polling at 43 percent. > > Ryan’s challenger, Wisconsin businessman Paul Nehlen, is polling at 32 percent. > > The Nehlen campaign notes that Ryan’s 43 percent “represents a drop of more than 30 points since the Nehlen campaign began polling likely Republican primary voters earlier in the year.” [Compared to May…](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/27/paul-ryan-blowing-away-tea-party-primary-challenge/) > [@](#): > > House Speaker Paul Ryan holds a commanding lead in the re-election race in his Wisconsin district, found a new poll that cast doubts on a spirited challenge in the Republican primary by a tea-party candidate. > > Mr. Ryan led by 73 points among likely GOP primary voters in Wisconsin’s 1st Congressional District and enjoyed a 20-point advantage in a general election matchup against a generic Democratic opponent, found the Vox Populi Polling survey releasedFriday. > > The poll provided clear evidence that at this point Mr. Ryan is not seriously threatened by a primary challenge from businessman Paul Nehlen, a tea party-allied Republican who has attacked the speaker for alleged “big-government spending” and other affronts to conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/57 "2016-08-02T20:00:06Z")
Is Ryan going to lose the primary? He might just get beaten by Nehlen. [A recent poll has it:](http://prntly.com/2016/07/30/july-poll-nehlen-is-beating-ryan-in-the-wisconsin-open-primary-in-2-weeks-video/) > [@](#): > > AMP Calypso has ranked the race > Poll Conducted 7-20 7-29 > 523 Actual Voters in Wisconsin District 1 > > Will Vote Paul Ryan: 41% > > Will Vote Paul Nehlen: 46% > > Undecided: 13% Also, this is apparently an open primary - will that make a difference? If Ryan is primaried out, does he then go on a full-out assault on Trump? For that matter, if he wins his primary, does he then fully repudiate Trump? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/58 "2016-08-02T20:06:20Z")
Can we dare dream? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/59 "2016-08-02T20:16:11Z")
Trump was just saying good stuff about Nehlen today. Maybe that will make Ryan turn against him. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390/60 "2016-08-02T21:07:46Z")
Here is Ryan’s secret plan: 1. Endorse Trump 2. Apologize constantly for Trump saying stupid things 3. Lose primary to Trump supporter 4. Wait for Trump to quit/be kicked out 5. Tell everyone “hey, I got nothing to do. Why not me?” 6. ??? 7. President Ryan! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-agony-of-paul-ryan-its-going-to-be-a-looooong-five-month-paul/757390.md?page=4)