# The AIG taxpayer bailout well spent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891 "2008-10-07T19:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/61 "2008-10-08T04:24:17Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I still want it. I could buy a lot of really fancy stuff with that kind of money. It’s my own brand of **tickle-up** economics. Was that economic theory invented by Elmo? ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/62 "2008-10-08T04:26:35Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > Was that economic theory invented by Elmo? Mr. Noodle, actually. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/63 "2008-10-08T04:33:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Can we throw in a golden shower for as an added bonus? After they have hit the ground, and we’ve shoveled (or, more likely, shop-vacced)their remains into shallow, unmarked graves. Seriously, I’m all for trying to make a dollar-and-a-cent in this world (God knows I try!), but this shit makes me wanna take up an AK-47, a nice Che Guevera black beret, and start lining people up against walls. > [@Brunhilda](#): > > That didn’t work out well for the last folks who tried it. [Bloody Sunday/ Russian Revolution of 1905](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1905)) The 4 million+ N.R.A. members who just watched their 401s turn to liquid shit will be much better armed than Russian peasants. If Obama wants to raise these chucklehead’s taxes to ~80%+ mark, I’ll consider voting for him. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. I’m a red-neck hoosier out in fly-over country; one of those “angry white guys,” “clinging to my guns and religion.” And from where I’m standing, watching my third and probably final attempt to scrape together a retirement fund after a couple of nasty, life-shattering events, I’m ready to start rolling heads. Unless my sarcasm meter’s out of alignment, isn’t that how we got in this mess in the first place? Our watchers, Congress, wasn’t watching? They gutted the laws that would’ve watched these guys? And then, later, when some finally said, “Hey, wait a minute here…”, other so-called “Watchers” said, “Naw, fuhgedaboutit, 's’alright, trust us.” Ain’t that it, in a nutshell? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/64 "2008-10-08T04:43:15Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. They did fail. They failed spectacularly. They _should_ be breaking open their kids’ piggy banks scraping together dimes to pay astronomical fines for Gross Negligence Causing the Destruction of Everyone’s Retirement Savings. But sadly, they’re apparently too important to be allowed to fail, and so get to suckle at the public teat instead. The least they could do is appear contrite. Aren’t conservatives supposed to be all about taking responsibility for one’s fuckups? Or doesn’t that apply to people who get paid millions to destroy corporations? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/65 "2008-10-08T04:48:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. Not to rain on your kneejerk apologist parade, or anything, but it doesn’t matter if the “soiree” - by the way, soirees don’t involve plane tickets - was planned and paid for; they just let a trillion-dollar company go bust. This is probably not an appropriate week to go on vacation. Breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders, eh? You mean… like the ones whose common stock is now worthless? Those shareholders? No, no breach of duty there. It isn’t the corporation’s fucking money. It’s our fucking money. Mine, yours, Mr. T’s, Donald Trump’s, etc. If I give $10 to a homeless guy so he can buy a sandwich, and he buys a 12-pack instead, well, I kinda should have seen that coming. If I give a hair under $800 billion to AIG, and they spend it on [del]hookers and blow[/del] bar tabs and a shiatsu massage, well, they should probably not be surprised when they get back and I’m a little pissy. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/66 "2008-10-08T04:55:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. They could at least have let the schoolchildren and the orphans take the pre-paid spa vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/67 "2008-10-08T04:59:56Z")
This kind of thing has been happening for a long time on a much smaller scale in most industries. (sorry no cite) I’ve read that the span between the salary of the CEO and the average salary of the rank and file within most corporations has grown exponentially in the last 30 years. Meaning that it used to be a CEO’s salary would be approximately 50% higher than his employees whereas now it’s more like 5000%. It’s shameful to say the least. Bonus packages have gone through the proverbial roof as well. We, as stockholders, have allowed this nonsense to continue because we thought we were invincible. We were wrong. Apparently some haven’t gotten the memo. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/68 "2008-10-08T05:00:01Z")
You’re missing the point, **Kimstu**. They had already paid for the grossly inappropriate luxurious pampering, if they didn’t go, they would be wasting the hard won money of their investors! They had a responsibility, nay, a duty! to go ahead with the plans. I mean, if Booth had popped Lincoln in the carriage outside Ford’s Theater, should Mary Todd Lincoln have simply thrown away perfectly good tickets? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/69 "2008-10-08T05:02:52Z")
To be fair this little get together was probably set up six months or so ago. It is quite possible that the location has a signed contract, obligating AIG to pay up if they had canceled. (this happened to a planned meeting my company had scheduled for Oct 2001, no one was willing to travel, and the hotel was a bunch of pricks) If this is true, then AIG is in a dammed if we do, dammed if we don’t scenario. If we cancel it costs us a pile of money. If we go it costs us a pile of money. My personal feeling is that they should have worked to postpone this meeting until things had quieted down, if they were locked into a contract. Having the meeting now, shows a large lack of class and basic smarts. ---
**Author:** ![Miss-Informed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Miss-Informed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss-Informed)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/70 "2008-10-08T05:43:54Z")
Even if they were on the hook for the booked rooms and spa services, the food/bar tab wouldn’t have come into play unless they actually, you know, went there and consumed said food and booze. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/71 "2008-10-08T05:50:06Z")
And lets not forget the local businessmen and entrepreneurs who would be impacted by them not showing up! Hey, its hard out there for pimp! ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/72 "2008-10-08T06:04:05Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > **Sure, western business types don’t have a tradition of falling on their swords after failures but that strikes me as rather unfortunate right now.** If they can’t muster up the resolve for a ritual disembowelment at least they should have the common sense and decency to keep a low profile–like stay in seclusion on their estates–for the foreseeable future. That reminds me of that scene in Serenity, hmm life imitates art perhaps. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/73 "2008-10-08T07:25:30Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You’re missing the point, Kimstu. Missing the point? Hell, so far I’ve missed the whole thread! Seriously, I think what happened is that you mistook **Ruby** for me (and I’m flattered!) ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/74 "2008-10-08T07:49:46Z")
I guess I’m joining this discussion a bit late but let’s not forget this “well-deserved” vacation for those hard-working CEO’s is not the real issue here. According to the link here: > **[Facing up to the downturn](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-08-fi-lazarus8-story.html)** > > AIG fiddles, Wall St. burns / A week at the spa can ease a lot of pain for callous, overpaid execs We find this interesting fact: - Joseph Cassano, the Lehman exec in charge of the company’s financial products division, received more than $280 million over the last eight years \ Even after he was shown the door in February, Cassano was placed on a $1 million-a-month consulting retainer. I wonder how much of that million dollar a month salary will come _directly_ from the tax bailout. I heard Dubya speaking today about how this bailout will need time to take effect. Sure. Executives need to get their pedicures and just how much work can someone do on a meager million dollar a month salary? Bunch of God damned assholes. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/75 "2008-10-08T09:30:35Z")
Since no one else has brought it up, I’ll mention it: This ain’t the _real_ pisser, folks. Nope. Not by a longshot. You see, instead of slinking off to some quiet tropical island to die in obscurity some years hence, these pricks will **all** be back working for other companies, and **not** scrubbing toilets with their tongues as they deserve, but warming seats in the boardrooms and executive washrooms. No doubt the Crackberries and iPhones of their personal assistants (I’ve dealt with these kinds of assholes, they _rarely_ can grasp how to do something as simple as use a cellphone) are ringing constantly with offers from this or that major corporation who simply _must_ have them. [Some months back, I pointed out how things might not be exactly “kosher” with this country in regards to the rich](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451957), and several people popped into say that I was “fucked up” in my thinking. I can’t help but notice that none of them have stepped into this thread to speak up on behalf of the “poor waifs” running AIG. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/76 "2008-10-08T09:38:18Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > I disagree. It’s completely fucking believable. Inexcusable, but believable. And fucking stupid, too - have they no tact? Of course not - they consider themselves our betters and deserving of every comfort while we peasants toil in the mud on their behalf with inadequate housing, food, clothing, and medical care. It’s time to remind these aristocrats that they are FAR outnumbered by the unwashed masses. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/77 "2008-10-08T09:48:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. So fucking what? I don’t care if the party was planned _ten years_ in advance! It’s like showing up at a funeral stark naked except for a purple party hat and day-glo green tie, and laughing manically. It’s totally inappropriate. It’s salt in the wound. It’s a bad case of “Fuck you, hooray for me.” _Of course_ they have no shame - they really do believe they are entitled to the good life no matter how much they fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/78 "2008-10-08T09:56:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. For someone who claims to be a (tax!) lawyer, you seem every bit as unclear on the definition of “breach of fiduciary duty” as you are on the definition of “evidence”. Adjust your droolcup, Corky, you’re dripping a bit there. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/79 "2008-10-08T10:33:39Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Adjust your droolcup, Corky, you’re dripping a bit there. Damn it, you made me spit a mouth full of water all over my keyboard. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/80 "2008-10-08T11:17:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. In my opinion, by hiding bad investments from the people who audited it and from people inside the company, executives at AIG broached their duty to their share holders so badly it resembles the breach made in the [Andrea Doria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Andrea_Doria). I’ve worked in travel and tourism. Arrangements can be cancelled and, while it may cost people some non-refundable deposits, it should still be cheaper than going through with the original plans. Even if was impossible to cancel the original arrangements without it costing every dime orignally spent, maybe someone should have thought about the damage to AIG’s reputation that little junket would do. As I think **eleanor rigby** said earlier, either they have no idea how bad this would look or they just don’t care. Either way, in my opinion, it demonstrates a level of irresponsibility and entitlement worthy of a three year old or a spoiled teenager. To me, as a taxpayer who lives frugally, it feels like a slap in the face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891.md?page=5)