# The AIG taxpayer bailout well spent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891 "2008-10-07T19:45:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/81 "2008-10-08T12:33:41Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, but that article leaves a lot of questions unanswered. This soiree could have been planned months in advance and already paid for. > > As long as they don’t breach their fiduciary duty to their shareholders (which now includes me and you), AIG’s directors can spend the corporation’s money however it wants to. I’m sure they will be donating some to schools and orphanages and whatnot and we won’t hear a peep out of you guys. Don;t worry, overpaid asshole tax lawyers that help them weasel out of shit like this will be the next up against the wall when the revolution comes, comrade. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/82 "2008-10-08T12:38:25Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > In my opinion, by hiding bad investments from the people who audited it and from people inside the company, executives at AIG broached their duty to their share holders so badly it resembles the breach made in the [Andrea Doria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Andrea_Doria). Just saying, but to me it looks more like money laundering, if not in intention at least in procedure. Take a box, put some good loans into it, dump a few stinky ones, close the lid, sell as The Good Stuff and voila, someone else’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/83 "2008-10-08T13:09:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Not to rain on a hippy douchebag parade or anything, Let’s see. Entitled assholes fucked the economy got a government bailout, and took that money – at your expense, mind you – and fucked us again. And anyone who doesn’t like that is a hippy douchebag? You, sir, should aspire to be a fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/84 "2008-10-08T13:11:00Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > Was that economic theory invented by Elmo? Not at all. I merely propose that we storm the winter palace armed with feather dusters. And flame throwers. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/85 "2008-10-08T13:43:33Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > For someone who claims to be a (tax!) lawyer, you seem every bit as unclear on the definition of “breach of fiduciary duty” as you are on the definition of “evidence”. > > Adjust your droolcup, Corky, you’re dripping a bit there. Are you a lawyer? If so, did you take corporations in school? If so, you’d know that a corporation has wide discretion over how to spend the dhareholder’s money and something like this is probably not actionable. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/86 "2008-10-08T13:48:28Z")
I love how several of you complain that these people have an entitlement attitude and then complain about your retirement or just the ecponomy as a whole (as if you are entitled to a certain return in your 401(k) no matter how you invest it or are entitled to live in times with a food economy). ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/87 "2008-10-08T13:56:54Z")
In the words of Lynn E. Turner, a witness at the congressional A.I.G. hearing, “A.I.G. is blaming its downfall on accounting rules which require it to disclose losses to its investors. That’s like blaming the thermometer, folks, for a fever.” [QUOTE=Rand Rover] …or are entitled to live in times with a food economy). [/QUOTE] Rand, we’ll be trading chickens as curency soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/88 "2008-10-08T14:00:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > If so, you’d know that a corporation has wide discretion over how to spend the dhareholder’s money and something like this is probably not actionable. You misspelled “shareholder’s” in this sentence, it should be spelled “taxpayer’s”. At any rate, you go begging for $85 billion to save your company, you lose the right to have wide discretion over spending the money on fancy hotel rooms and spa treatments. Even if it isn’t actionable, that doesn’t suddenly make them honest hardworking executives, they’re still assholes. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/89 "2008-10-08T14:03:03Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Are you a lawyer? I am not. And because I’ve apparently been not entirely clear on this point, I don’t believe for a second that \*you \*are, either. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/90 "2008-10-08T14:26:09Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I love how several of you complain that these people have an entitlement attitude and then complain about your retirement or just the ecponomy as a whole (as if you are entitled to a certain return in your 401(k) no matter how you invest it or are entitled to live in times with a food economy). On one hand you have assholes going off to some luxery resort after they trashed the economy, on the other you have people’s retirements that depended on that economy turning to smoke potentially making them spend their last years in poverty. Hmm which one is worse? You say the seniors in potential poverty group is the entitled one because you feel we, every tax payer gave AIG the bailout money and it should theirs to do with as they wish. **even though it’s our money they’re spending after sending retired people to poverty with their incompotence** You sir are evidence that anyone who supports trickle down theory is a complete brainless idiot. I think AIG executives should personally be responsible for reimbursing out of their own pockets anyone who’s taken losses. Pension losses first. Yes I understand they don’t have that kind of money and it will drive them to poverty. That’s a positive side effect. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/91 "2008-10-08T14:32:57Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Are you a lawyer? Per **DianaG** , neither are you. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/92 "2008-10-08T14:40:19Z")
I’ll guarantee you that the conversation heard most in tony executive mansions after the announcement of the failure and ultimate bail-out was between old fat white guys and trophy wives and the the most common phrase uttered was probably, “We’re still going to the spa, aren’t we, Daddy?” There’s no way this trip was going to get cancelled or those poor bastards would never get laid again. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/93 "2008-10-08T14:43:06Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > we’ll be trading chickens as curency soon enough. My plans are coming to fruition! Chickeny fruition! Mwahahaha! ~Pullet~ Future Poultry Veterinarian/Evil Genius ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/94 "2008-10-08T15:29:23Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I am not. And because I’ve apparently been not entirely clear on this point, I don’t believe for a second that \*you \*are, either. Good thing for me my state bar doesn’t consult you re: who is and is not a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/95 "2008-10-08T16:01:45Z")
I looked through several articles about the spa trip. They all say it was on tax payer money. It was wrong and they should pay it back. More than that it was a profoundly stupid thing to do at this time. It demonstrates what kind of stewardship they will have over our money. They see it as theirs and will continue business as usual. Fuck them. They should be fired. The lot of them should be kept from the tax bailout money. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/96 "2008-10-08T16:17:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Good thing for me my state bar doesn’t consult you re: who is and is not a lawyer. The state of gross mental incompetence doesn’t consult anybody for anything! ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/97 "2008-10-08T16:40:32Z")
I say again: doesn’t matter if it was scheduled or paid in advance. Doesn’t matter if it was taxpayer money or their own. If the company is in dire financial trouble they _shouldn’t be_ scheduling extravagant services at a lavish resort no matter whose money it is! If they can’t figure out basic economics like this, they don’t deserve a bailout at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/98 "2008-10-08T16:52:05Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > \ > [Some months back, I pointed out how things might not be exactly “kosher” with this country in regards to the rich](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=451957), and several people popped into say that I was “fucked up” in my thinking. I can’t help but notice that none of them have stepped into this thread to speak up on behalf of the “poor waifs” running AIG. I’m having a similar feeling; a long time ago, when I was fairly new to these boards, I had the audacity to post that I didn’t think any corporate CEO was worth millions of dollars of salary, and was shouted down by many people who had complete faith in the capitalist system and the rewarding of those who worked hard to get where they are (i.e. multi-million dollar CEOs). O the fickle tides of fate. ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/99 "2008-10-08T17:13:55Z")
What happens when groups like this cancel a big retreat is the hotel has no choice but to cancel the entertainment for that weekend due to “low occupancy” (like just happened to my band for two of our scheduled Saturdays in November at a large resort hotel) Won’t someone think of the jazz musicians? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891/100 "2008-10-08T17:27:46Z")
I don’t actually have a problem with corporate CEOs being paid millions, as long as their rewards are tied to the profitability of the company. Company does good: they get rich. Company does bad: they don’t. Make their risks \*and \*their rewards equal. But they shouldn’t get all the benefits of being the head honcho and none of the penalties. If I, as a lowly working stiff, screwed up and cost the hypothetical company I work for millions, I wouldn’t be surprised to find myself out on my ear. No golden parachutes to ease my way out. Just, “Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.” This is the kind of story that has the primitive, medieval part of my brain envisioning these guys dragged naked through the streets and hanged. I **don’t** want that to happen to these people. I really don’t. Mob rule is bad, and I don’t think their activities deserve death. But I really, really wish I could see them stripped of their wealth and sent to prison. Actually, I’d rather see the former than the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-aig-taxpayer-bailout-well-spent/466891.md?page=6)