# The Air America Death-Rattle Has Begun! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108 "2005-09-29T22:23:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/41 "2005-09-30T01:40:16Z")
I guess Franken doesn’t really believe in free speech, huh? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/42 "2005-09-30T01:40:55Z")
I really like Franken’s show. Ed Shultz is good too, but I’m not sure he is Air America. The rest of Air America is a little shrill though. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/43 "2005-09-30T01:41:52Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Well, you _could_ theorize that, but it would beg the obvious question: why weren’t these same liberals “intelligent” enough to realize that a left-wing talk-radio network would fail in the first place? 😉 Those were not the liberals that started the program. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/44 "2005-09-30T01:43:38Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I guess Franken doesn’t really believe in free speech, huh? Well, compare that to the president’s various “rallies” which required “loyalty oaths”, the so called “free speech areas”, and the way they used police to round up dissenters. Pot calling the kettle black? Besides, if the guy was getting violent, he got what he was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/45 "2005-09-30T01:44:15Z")
From the above article: \*MANCHESTER — Liberal activist and comedian Al Franken helped eject a boisterous heckler from a crowded Howard Dean rally at the Palace Theatre Monday, the theater’s manager said yesterday. The heckler began yelling from the rear of the theater while the Democratic Presidential hopeful was taking questions from the audience, theater manager Peter Ramsey said. Two members of Dean’s security team immediately moved in on the man, who shoved and elbowed them, Ramsey said. “He was screaming. He was out of control,” Ramsey said.\* The heckler was “screaming” and “out of control?” Are you sure Franken didn’t accidentally throw Howard Dean out of the room? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/46 "2005-09-30T01:53:23Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > My question is obvious: if a liberal is ‘intelligent’ enough to know that “those on the left of the spectrum…[are] less likely to listen to radio hucksters,” why in the world would this same ‘intelligent’ liberal start a radio network aimed directly at that audience? Who is this ‘same’ liberal you are speaking of? Isn’t history filled with intelligent people who have failed at one business venture or another? The fact that this one failed (or is failing) doesn’t really mean there is no market for such a station. It just says that some people screwed the pooch on this one. Maybe they’ll try again and be successful. Or someone else will pick up the ball and be successful. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/47 "2005-09-30T01:58:23Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > \ Did they have any quips about the poor villager who got maimed by the Franken Monster? 😃 I wish, but while I followed the story at the time, the post has now taken down the story. However, if you want to watch an anti-train wreck in progress, [here](http://www.alfrankenweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6043) is a thread about the topic, back before the real story came out. (Link goes to another thread, and is a year old.) [Here](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040128-114415-1604r.htm) is another sample of a way too early reaction. P.S. For crying out loud (Very Loud!) Dean was trying to talk in a very crowded arena, and his mike was right next to his mouth. Of course a recording directly from the mic would sound like he is shouting, rather then speaking above the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/48 "2005-09-30T01:58:54Z")
It’s a shame if it’s going under. I listened to it a couple of times and it was interesting to hear if you were listening to Rush as well. You get two sides of the issue. The problem is I guess that Franken et al, aren’t as polished in their presentation as Rush. Rush’s format is basically something that Rush designed that works very well for him, and it evolved over a long time frame. I get the feeling that Air America is a response in kind to Rush. It makes the mistake of following Rush’s format. Rush does Rush better than Franken does Rush. What Franken needs to do is do Franken. Rush’s style is that of faux pompousness underlying the premise that he really does know what he’s talking about. He makes fun of himself for making the claims to greatness that he makes, which of course, allows him to make the claims and pontificate. Franken’s natural style (when he’s at his best) is almost the opposite. He discovers his own ineptitude through gentle parody. Rush likes to hit people on the head with his message. It doesn’t work for Franken. Franken would be best if he did a conservative style radio show and argued conservatism… badly. He could point out flaws and fallacies by being an inept advocate of Bush, a parody of a conservative talk show host who keeps tripping on his logical holes and fallacies. Franken can do this kind of stuff really well. It would be funny, and while nobody likes to be told they’re an asshole, most people have enough of a sense of humor that they don’t mind seeing their personal beliefs parodied. The few times I’ve heard Franken, he would **almost** go in this direction but then stop. It was frustating. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/49 "2005-09-30T02:01:45Z")
I shoulda said: > [@](#): > > (Link goes to another [del]thread[/del] forum, one unconnected with the SDMB, and which is a year old.) ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/50 "2005-09-30T02:01:51Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I wish, but while I followed the story at the time, the post has now taken down the story. However, if you want to watch an anti-train wreck in progress, [here](http://www.alfrankenweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6043) is a thread about the topic, back before the real story came out. (Link goes to another thread, and is a year old.) > > [Here](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040128-114415-1604r.htm) is another sample of a way too early reaction. > > P.S. For crying out loud (Very Loud!) Dean was trying to talk in a very crowded arena, and his mike was right next to his mouth. Of course a recording directly from the mic would sound like he is shouting, rather then speaking above the crowd. From your link: _Though accounts of the fracas vary, the beefy comedian essentially bearhugged, then brought down an agitated Lyndon LaRouche supporter who screamed Mr. Dean was “a liar” from the back of the Palace Theatre in Manchester, where the Democratic presidential hopeful took questions._ Oh, the irony! Franken was upset because somebody called Dean a “liar.” I guess the buck-toothed, coke-bottle-glasses-wearing moron thinks only _he_ should be allowed to call names, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/51 "2005-09-30T02:08:38Z")
Um, in case you haven’t noticed, that link was to examples of people distorting what actually happend. I am sure most have read what I meant to say, but I am amazed at your ability to see only what you want to see. In reality, he did not tackle the guy because he felf like it, but because it was obvious the the screaming unnamed loony could not be held down by two security guards, (Who, you will note, were gratefull for the help) and was a danger to himself and others. In addition, in the second part of my first article, (a part I did not quote, for copyright reasons) Franken keeps the second heckler from jumping down to the stage, possibly hurting himself in the process. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/52 "2005-09-30T02:29:50Z")
This guy in the lab listens to Hannity (he’s from China, so you’ll see the weird irony in a minute), so I pretty much have to be exposed to it occasionally or raise a whiney stink. If I remember correctly, the subject of today’s particular screed was that guy who parked his Cherokee on the tracks in Glendale, CA, decided at the last moment to not be killed in the collision, and left his jeep on the spot. The train, upon collision, derailed, killing 11 and injuring hundreds more, some seriously. The driver of the Jeep was Juan Manuel Alvarez. Hannity made it a point to repeat that name at every opportunity, slowly, with a distorted attempt at a Spanish accent that was clearly meant to be derisive. Hannity’s big question was, hey, since this guy’s a Mexican, how come nobody considered this might be an act of international terrorism? How come the liberal media is unwilling to entertain this distinct possibility? Why are they bending over backwards to protect this _Hhwaaahn Man-yooeyl Alllllllvarrrez_ from the kind of scrutiny he should be getting when it’s so obvious to Sean Hannity it’s a question that needs to be asked? Sean Hannity! Protecting you from potential Mexican Al Qaeda operatives! I’m thinking, this is fucking brilliant. This is amazing. No wonder this fuckhead is so incredibly popular. He’s willing to say shit no person who at least wishes to have the appearance of decency would be could dead saying. He’s a living, breathing avatar of the right-wing id and he’s raking in the money with both fists. Pure, simple, filthy entertainment. Republican porn, of the most hard-core variety. How could it not sell? Air America? Too soft-core for the real lefty wingnuts, who appear to number too few to justify a more extreme approach. Yet, let’s face it, soft-core doesn’t sell as well to even the general audience, because it’s just not titillating enough to hold our interest for long. It doesn’t have that addictive appeal. Lefties aren’t buying, plain and simple. But righties, clearly, loves teh pr0n! ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/53 "2005-09-30T02:33:27Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > I remember correctly, the subject of today’s particular screed was that guy who parked his Cherokee on the tracks in Glendale, CA, decided at the last moment to not be killed in the collision, and left his jeep on the spot. The train, upon collision, derailed, killing 11 and injuring hundreds more, some seriously. > > The driver of the Jeep was Juan Manuel Alvarez. ! I don’t know about al Qaeda, but this Juan Manuel Alvarez is responsible for the deaths of 11 innocent people. I’d like to see him fry for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/54 "2005-09-30T02:34:15Z")
In my opinion, liberals are better at satirizing on television and radio and letting objective views play out in the headlines. We don’t need the spin or interpretation that a Limbaugh, a Hannity, or an O’Reilly bring to their listeners or viewers. Franken is much better at pure satire. (Five Emmys and two Grammy Awards according to Amazon) The current Administrative situation doesn’t leave the Republicans with much room to satirize. That’s why Dennis Miller crashed and burned even though he is a genius. He picked the wrong team. (BTW, Hannity has written two books since 2003; Franken has written five during the same period. I suspect that Franken’s are better sellers, but that isn’t always indicative of quality anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/55 "2005-09-30T02:54:25Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I don’t know about al Qaeda, but this Juan Manuel Alvarez is responsible for the deaths of 11 innocent people. I’d like to see him fry for what he did. And that is relevant to my point because…? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/56 "2005-09-30T02:58:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > It’s a shame if it’s going under. I listened to it a couple of times and it was interesting to hear if you were listening to Rush as well. You get two sides of the issue. > > The problem is I guess that Franken et al, aren’t as polished in their presentation as Rush. Rush’s format is basically something that Rush designed that works very well for him, and it evolved over a long time frame. > > \ > > Rush’s style is that of faux pompousness underlying the premise that he really does know what he’s talking about. He makes fun of himself for making the claims to greatness that he makes, which of course, allows him to make the claims and pontificate. > > \ > > Franken’s natural style (when he’s at his best) is almost the opposite. He discovers his own ineptitude through gentle parody. Rush likes to hit people on the head with his message. It doesn’t work for Franken. My reply tellls me that I might be in dire need of a Lysol bath/soak. Nonetheless, I actually agree with **Scylla** on this one. Granted I’ve not given _any_ of the hucksters on either side much listening time – apologies if this sounds haughty but but I don’t any variance of same to make up my mind on issues, that from my POV, are beyond obvious. Having said that, the few times I’ve listened and/or watched Franken on radio or TV, I’ve found him an almost total bore both lacking in charisma and substance. In short, a nerd whose more than likely to elicit a cult-like following and little else. As a reader, I thought his “Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them” was a worthy read and thus I was looking forward to his on-air ‘confirmation.’ Can’t say that he’s come even close to it. Whinny, insecure and droll is much more like it. Say what you will about Rush – and I have; nothing good as far as content – but there’s no doubting he _commands_ his craft. Hell for sheer entertainment and level of outrage – for or against – Franken simply can’t hold a candle against him. Finally, what does that all mean? Is the shrill-level quality of talk shows the measure of success/failure in US politics? Hope not. But they _are_ clearly winning, are they not? Arghhh. Must. Soak. Lysol ready. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/57 "2005-09-30T03:20:25Z")
PS-IMV, what you’re (Dems) sorely lacking are leaders, plans and balls/ovaries to put them out there – however “politically costly” they might appear at present time. I feel the Democratic leadership has not only beem MIA as of late and as of early, but hugely undervaluing the capacity for understanding of Bush’s [foreign policy and its results](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/28/national/w125724D20.DTL) by Middle/Independent America. I really do think that (overall) you, as a country, are a whole lot smarter that both your politicians and the rest of the world give you credit for. Straight talking might be a good start – by anyone who dares to do so other than the much-maligned and ultimately unqualified for the world of Big Politics, Cindy Shehan. Clearly, she is in way over her head. Props to her anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/58 "2005-09-30T03:37:03Z")
Look, this is very likely complete bullshit, and considering our source here, doubly so. For what it is worth, it is contested by Daniel Goldberg: > **[Right Wing Media Gets Desperate](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/right-wing-media-gets-des_b_8029)** > > Air America is in strong financial shape. Their ratings are up at the vast majority of our affiliates. > [@](#): > > The pretext for the latest smears is an initiative I launched last week called Air America Associates, in which I asked our listeners to support our programming financially and at various levels offer bumper stickers, tote bags, etc. as a way of thanking them. (We received thousands of responses, far beyond what we projected for the first few days). > > Many of our listeners also listen to NPR stations and Pacifica and are used to supporting radio programming they like. I got the idea from the Nation Magazine’s program “The Nation Associates” which helps them fund investigative journalism. Like Air America Radio, The Nation is a for-profit company. Given the M.O. of the right and the fact that **Stephe** is a complete fucking tool, my money is on this being just another smear campaign by the right. We can only thank our lucky stars that we have a direct conduit to dump this shit right onto our pages. As for Al Franken, in my book he is the perfect representative for what liberal radio should be doing. I love his show, and would never listen to a bloviating bag of shit like Limbaugh, regardless of his political orientation. I need to believe what I am hearing is true and based in fact (or is obvious parody). Franken delivers this, while at the same time lambasting the fucktards of the right. I’ve tried listening to a couple of other programs on Air America, and they just don’t hold my interest. I already know Bush is a cocksucker. Yelling it at me doesn’t do a damn thing. Keep me informed about the cocksucking things he is actually doing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/59 "2005-09-30T04:26:49Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > The man is obsessed with Bill O’Reilly, can’t stop talking about what O’Reilly said on last night’s show… this becomes extremely boring after about 10 minutes or so. Wait wait wait. The guy who does nothing but post lame attempts to ridicule liberals (to the point where he’s making fun of Al Franken’s glasses) says that Franken is boring because he’s obsessed with Bill O’Reilly? I hope you never find out what irony is. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108/60 "2005-09-30T06:01:59Z")
Maybe it’s not everyone’s cup of tea – what form of entertainment _is_? – but I love Air America and thank God it’s around. Sure it’s basically all from one side of the political spectrum, but we lefties need _one_ oasis in the desert of conservative media out there. Knowing there’s one station out there where I can go to feel “at home” is a dream come true. And as I’ve said before, the best part of AAR is that it has a bit of something for almost every style of left winger. Want a softened, mainstream-appropriate view? Choose Al Franken and enjoy the star power politico interviews he attracts. Want topical humor? _Morning Sedition_ and the Rachel Madow Show offer different ways of laughing at the absurdity of life in Bush’s America. Activists can rant along with Randi Rhodes, my man Mike Malloy (who could teach any of those Fox fuckers a thing or two about rage) and the increasingly polished Sam Seder (and Janeane Garofalo when’s able to show up in between _West Wing_ shoots). NPR-lovers will lift their lattes in a toast to Laura Flanders, Robert Kennedy and Mike Papantonio. And music fans can rock out to Steve Earle and Chuck D. (I haven’t listened to the Jerry Springer show yet, but I hear he’s surprisingly good – not sure what his style is though.) Air America radio, despite the loss of one affiliate in Philly, has raced into 70 stations in just over a year. That’s pretty freakin’ impressive, especially since AAR isn’t run by a huge-ass corporation like ClearChannel that owns gazillions of radio stations. In fact, until recently, AAR wasn’t even syndicating its programs – it had to “flip” the programming of an entire station. That takes a lot more work and is harder to accomplish … but they’ve done it. Offering programs for syndication will widen its reach even further. AAR has defied expectations all around despite the constant naysaying pundits and assorted media mediocrities who desperately want the venture to fail. The latest claim is that their “Associates Program” is a pathetic last-ditch cry for help. Commercial radio hosts & programs _never_ try to raise money through their audience. Oh _really_? [ul][li]Sean Hannity gives his listeners the special opportunity to subscribe to a newsletter for a mere $78 a year.[/li][li]Rush Limbaugh sells access to his archives for $49.95 a year. You can also get a newsletter for $35, as well as buy T-shirts and cups from his site. [/li][li]Bill O’Reilly has a panoply of merchandise he’s shilling to his audience, from $15 mugs to $8 keychains and $17 hats and $50 “premium memberships.”[/ul] [/li] Dayum, if seeking money from one’s audience is a sign of financial disarray, these three must be perilously near bankruptcy!\* - The financial kind, that is. Hannity, Limbaugh and O’Reilly became morally bankrupt a long time ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-air-america-death-rattle-has-begun/324108.md?page=4)