# The alcoholics at the New York Times **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [November 22, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542 "2023-11-22T17:22:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/21 "2023-11-22T22:53:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > When I got married, I was ordering the booze for the reception. When I got married we had no booze. My wife has relatives that you don’t want to put booze in front of. I don’t mean they’re recovering alcoholics. There’s no recovering for them. We still had plenty of guests, people enjoyed the good food we had served (a local amazing Italian place catered) and there were no injuries, destruction of property, or lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/22 "2023-11-22T23:02:20Z")
A few Christmases ago, I was the only drinker of alcohol, and my BiL was pouring glasses for me from a bottle he got as a gift from one the doctors he worked for. It was delicious! I finished the bottle over about two hours (while munching most of that time), and I didn’t feel inebriated at all. Also, I was not the designated driver, so no worries on that issue. After the first bottle was gone, he opened another bottle he’d bought. I only drank about half a glass. It just wasn’t very good compared to the first bottle. Kind of an opposite situation to the Marriage Feast at Cana story. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/23 "2023-11-22T23:29:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Not much to add. For a high end dinner out with experienced wine folks we figure 2 bottles per couple. The typical man will drink 1+ and the typical woman a bit less than 1. > > For an all day social event you’d want 50-100% more than that. Indeed, I think the OP’s circle of acquaintances must be near-tea-totallers. There’s a reason that a standard bottle of wine is 750 ml. It’s enough to last through an average-size simple dinner and impart a mild buzz to two people. It’s therefore hardly unusual that on special occasions one adult might consume twice as much, or the equivalent of at least one bottle or more. I’ve certainly consumed the equivalent of an entire bottle or more of red or white in one sitting and not thought it to be anything exceptional – it’s downright hard to avoid with multi-course dinners with wine pairings. > [@Eonwe](#): > > Just chiming in not to call you out specifically for what was just a casual comment, but to say that there are plenty of adults in their “youthful” age range who don’t drink in quantity (or at all). The “anyone who is a vigorous human who doesn’t drink a lot at parties must have some non-conforming reason” perspective is part of the generally toxic relationship we have culturally with alcohol. Many people have a bad relationship with alcohol, but I wouldn’t call our societal relationship with alcohol “toxic”. I have never, in my youth or any other time, experienced peer pressure to drink. As a society I think we recognize the potential problems with alcohol and treat it accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/24 "2023-11-22T23:44:39Z")
It really depends on what the event is. A typical many hours long family thanksgiving I can easily finish a bottle without approaching getting drunk. 5 glasses in a 4 hour period? People think that’s a lot? By the end I would be at or close to .00% BAC. Now if it’s a dinner out at a restaurant that would be different. That’s what we are doing this year and I’ll probably have two glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/25 "2023-11-22T23:58:12Z")
[In the US](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db374.htm), about 33% of adults don’t drink, another 46% have \<=3 drinks per week, and another 15% drink 4 to 14 (men) or 4 to 7 (women) drinks per week. A bottle of wine is 5 glasses. I don’t know what the right conversion is, but it doesn’t seem totally unreasonable to use 1 week of typical drinking as 1 full day of holiday drinking. If so, then roughly 2/3 of the people will only need half a bottle of wine. Two or three glasses. Moderate drinkers are more like a full bottle, but are only 15% of the population. Heavy drinkers are a small portion at 5%, but drink _vastly_ more than the rest. It doesn’t seem healthy to pander to them. There’s a good chance that if you _are_ buying a bottle per person, the majority are still only having a couple of glasses each, while the rest is entirely consumed by the moderate and heavy drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/26 "2023-11-23T00:15:07Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I don’t know what the right conversion is, but it doesn’t seem totally unreasonable to use 1 week of typical drinking as 1 full day of holiday drinking. If so, then roughly 2/3 of the people will only need half a bottle of wine. Two or three glasses. You also have to account for people like me - I would be in the 3 drinks a week or less group. But that’s mostly because I don’t drink all that regularly. When I’m on vacation I might have five or six drinks a day (starting with a mimosa at breakfast) and not have another drink until I’m on vacation again. Holiday drinking - depends on which holiday and how long I will be there but could definitely get to four or five if it’s an 11 am to 7 sort of day. . ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/27 "2023-11-23T00:22:17Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > You also have to account for people like me That’s fair–like I said, I don’t really know what the right conversion is between typical vs. holiday drinking. I’m not so different myself in that in a _median_ week, I have zero drinks, but will likely have a few on holidays. Still, I suspect that the enormous ratio between light vs. heavy drinkers is there even on holidays, even if it’s less extreme than the typical case. Of course, there’s also the fact that light vs. heavy drinking is likely correlated within families and friend groups. Some families will be teetotalers and others will all be heavy drinkers. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/28 "2023-11-23T00:50:20Z")
In my experience, party guests finish all the booze, and not only on Thanksgiving. IMO the _New York Times_’s advice that “too much is better than not enough” is sound. [And a bottle of wine is not _that_ much. I mean, you should not be drinking one every day, but we are talking about a holiday party and some people will indeed drink that much.] ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/29 "2023-11-23T01:01:34Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > You also have to account for people like me - I would be in the 3 drinks a week or less group. But that’s mostly because I don’t drink all that regularly. When I’m on vacation I might have five or six drinks a day (starting with a mimosa at breakfast) and not have another drink until I’m on vacation again. Holiday drinking - depends on which holiday and how long I will be there but could definitely get to four or five if it’s an 11 am to 7 sort of day. . This is me, to a tee. I rarely drink except at festivities, and then based on how long I’m going to be in attendance and if I am driving home. For a long visit, I can get through a bottle of wine in a day. And never feel more than a pleasant buzz. * * * When I entertain, I tend to follow a bottle-per-person rule. Almost invariably, there are bottles left over. But that just means I have host/hostess gifts bought ahead whenever I am next invited to a gathering. No down side, in my view! The worst alcohol etiquette I ever encountered was by a couple who were not invited to my dinner but invited by friends of mine who brought them along to dinner. One of those, “Oh, she won’t mind! She always has plenty!” type deals. But this wasn’t a buffet. It was a sit-down dinner for which places had been set, and accommodating two extra was problematic. So in fact I did mind. It was also an expensive dinner to give and while there was plenty, I do not even like these people. They brought the cheapest, nastiest bottle of wine they could find and then – again uninvited – immediately started throwing open cabinet doors in my kitchen, searching for the booze. I closed the doors firmly and said, “We’re having wine tonight,” and while I would dearly have loved to inflict their horrid wine on them, I wouldn’t do that to the rest of my guests. So I served good wine to the jerks but at least I kept them out of the expensive scotch. Good luck, OP! Only you know the drinking habits of your friends and family. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/30 "2023-11-23T01:04:59Z")
Something like three quarters of my friends drink no alcohol, and my extended family is made up of light social drinkers (the two that weren’t have since died). One or two glasses at most in a social evening, and no one drinks before or during lunch. I’ve had wine sitting in my cupboard for up to a year before it occurs to anyone to crack it open. I suppose this is anomalous. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/31 "2023-11-23T01:47:02Z")
Not so anomalous. My friends and family are the same. Very few serious drinkers and many who never touch the stuff. Not for any health or moral reasons, they just don’t like it. Someone said it gives them a “pleasant buzz”. It gives me an unpleasant buzz. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/32 "2023-11-23T02:01:03Z")
I drink rarely. I can’t think of the last time I drank. I can drink quite a bit on the right occasion but those occasions aren’t often. One issue is that I’m often on a ketogenic diet and a small drink will affect me like a whole bottle. While that might sound awesome, it’s not. You skip from the “pleasantly buzzed” directly to the “extremely sick” phase. So, for example, no drinking for me on Thanksgiving. But come Christmas I’ll probably do a fair amount, ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/33 "2023-11-23T02:03:21Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Someone said it gives them a “pleasant buzz”. It gives me an unpleasant buzz. I get that pleasant buzz with a half glass. After that I get dizzy and the world gets really weird and semi-unfathomable. I can’t think that’s what happens to most people. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/34 "2023-11-23T02:47:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > and there were no injuries, destruction of property, or lawsuits. So where’s the fun in that? 😁 > [@wolfpup](#): > > It’s therefore hardly unusual that on special occasions one adult might consume twice as much, or the equivalent of at least one bottle or more. I’ve certainly consumed the equivalent of an entire bottle or more of red or white in one sitting and not thought it to be anything exceptional – it’s downright hard to avoid with multi-course dinners with wine pairings 'Zactly. It takes 2-4 hours to eat a nice dinner. Having a bottle per person along the way, plus perhaps an _aperitif_ and/or _digestif_ fits right in. Done right, it’s another highly crafted gourmet product no less than any solid course of the meal. > [@wolfpup](#): > > As a society I think we recognize the potential problems with alcohol and treat it accordingly. Some of we do. Several of we don’t. And those are the troublemakers who energize the bluenoses. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There’s a good chance that if you _are_ buying a bottle per person, the majority are still only having a couple of glasses each, while the rest is entirely consumed by the moderate and heavy drinkers. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/35 "2023-11-23T06:29:12Z")
Thank you all for the responses. Very insightful. It sounds like while my crew has some company with our “near-teetotaler” status, we are by no means the common case and the _NYT_ recommendation is pretty sound (and in some cases too light 🙂 ). One aspect that I did not take into account is the “all-day” celebration. In our case, we typically follow the same rough schedule; gingerbread house building, outdoor activities (Frisbee, volleyball, walks, etc.), followed by dinner and relaxation. So the wine is primarily consumed with dinner and not all day (we also don’t usually linger at the table). We also decide on a special “holiday” drink every year that most people try, so it cuts into the wine consumption I think. Some great ideas! Happy Thanksgiving to all who celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/36 "2023-11-23T06:31:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Maybe they’re not alcoholics. Maybe they’re just severely math-phobic and dividing a number by 2 is more than they can handle. This actually makes sense. Last year we were eating turkey sandwiches into June after following their “one turkey per adult” recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![cardinal\_fang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal_fang/32/15316_2.png) [@cardinal\_fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cardinal_fang)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/37 "2023-11-23T06:37:32Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > My Thanksgiving dinners have never been anything like that. No racist relatives. No Trumpists. No football. Same, although the football game is on in the background. But, happily, very little conflict. 🙂 > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > For the two of us who will be at tomorrow’s feast (stuffed cornish game hen and a salad) we will share one bottle of wine, and it will not be finished. At least not by me. That sounds lovely! > [@epbrown](#): > > For something like Thanksgiving? Two _boxes_ of wine, Franzia’s “Chillable Red” and some sort of white (Moscato’s popular in our family). Save the bottles for something fancy. That is a great idea. I am going to do that next year. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > Good luck, OP! Only you know the drinking habits of your friends and family. 🙂 Thank you! Sorry to hear about your awful experience with the uninvited guests. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/38 "2023-11-23T12:28:13Z")
> [@cardinal\_fang](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Maybe they’re not alcoholics. Maybe they’re just severely math-phobic and dividing a number by 2 is more than they can handle. > > This actually makes sense. Last year we were eating turkey sandwiches into June after following their “one turkey per adult” recommendation. I laughed out loud for real at that one. Well played, Good Sir! Well played. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/39 "2023-11-23T13:02:53Z")
You just know this is capitalism by the wine council. They’re probably also heavy drinkers. 🙂 I once drank an entire bottle of port wine. I don’t recall how long I enjoyed the buzz, but I don’t think it was longer than I was throwing up in the shower later. Actually, a good hostess does his best to make sure there is plenty to go around so I think this is a decent recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542/40 "2023-11-23T13:09:47Z")
For an average dinner my gf and I finish a bottle of wine. For any kind of holiday dinner, we open and finish a second bottle. For a party, I’d much rather have some booze leftover. I don’t want my guests drinking the vanilla extract and such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-alcoholics-at-the-new-york-times/993542.md?page=3)